Tell me about dun...

[pips&peeps]

I know very little about it, can someone out there discuss it with me????

 

[GotGame]

dun is a diluting gene just like blue, and it breeds just like blue.

Dun x Black = 50% Dun, 50% Black
Dun x Dun = 25% Black, 25% Khaki(Sport), and 50% Dun

and so on, genetically it breeds just like blue

 

[pips&peeps]

How would it work in a buff bird? I have been hatching some chicks that just aren't quite right.

Some of them appear buff around the face and extremities, but are a champagne color on the back and some are hatching black with buff around the face and wing feathers......

 

[GotGame]

no idea, most birds arent carrying 'only' the dun gene, and then you cross it on buff and you get mutts...interesting though

 

[Illia]

Dun in buff is a theoretical, (though I've seen it proved true in some birds) color that aids in keeping out black feathers as well as keeping a decent, uniform color in the bird. In most cases I've never seen it actually obviously there in the feather except, for what I hope, in my current Buff cockerel. Otherwise, if your chicks are just now turning out like that, perhaps there's something new going on? I would assume what you have happening is new lines introduced who have the dun gene, and are somehow expressing it more than they should. (perhaps something else in the introduced birds is missing or heterozygous)

Have you ever taken a good look at the shaft color in all the feathers of your birds, versus any possible new blood you've introduced (parents to the odd colored chicks)


The chick pictured kind of looks like a Khaki chick.

 

[pips&peeps]

I've had the new cockerel breeding the hens and pullets since last fall and I have gotten a couple of these and a couple that are black with buff faces.

I have always gotten chicks with some partridge type markings on them and usually they will grow out with lots of pepper or black in the tail, so I do not keep them.

 

[Illia]

Black w/buff faces? Like this?

If so, and telling by that other chick pictured in comparison, sounds like you've got khaki and black chicks, however not in true buff form. Any chicks I ever get with black or chocolate coloration and yellow or orange faces like shown always turn out that weird partridgey look, as if someone crossed Buff x Black.

I'd say there's some vital genes missing here that are required for a true Buff.

I think it is a safe bet to say you are indeed looking at two parents with one dun allele, thus giving 50% normal chicks, 25% black, 25% khaki looking chicks, but there's something else going on too. . .

 

[pips&peeps]

Quote:
Looks very similar, but more orangey buff around the face.

From what I have been getting from the ABC members, buff was bred into the ameraucanas using buff laced polish. I don't know what color ameraucana they used though.

Check out some of John's off colored chicks at the ABC.

 

[Illia]

Ah, then that right there is the ticket. Buff Laced Polish are E^R/E^R, basically birchen based, with Columbian and Dominant White for the Lacing (melanizer and patterning) Plus I think there's something else in there too. . .

Anyway, I think that's the issue. Buff isn't the same as what Buff Laced Polish have (minus the lacing) - So I think you're seeing some remnants from the Polish pop up. I know myself that crossing any Laced Polish with Wheaten, Brown-Red, etc give the exact colors you're describing, minus the khaki looking chick.

Still, I don't see why or how the Polish in there is. . . Most Buff Ameraucanas are VERY reminiscent to Buff Orpingtons, and some of their "in need of fixing" issues make sense if there's Orpington behind them.


But back to the point, it is hard to say what we're looking at without surely knowing parents and even color origin. Dun is not found in Buff Laced Polish, but it can be in Buff Orpingtons. Dominant White is in Polish though, and it is likely that with a loss of a couple required genes, the white is now showing up more. I know in solid buff birds, white in there will make the tails and a few other feathers turn an odd khaki color.

I'd be fascinated to see how your chicks mature, they'll tell us a lot.

 

[pips&peeps]

The line that came from Paul was either a mix or directly related to buff ameraucanas created by a man named Jay Horn. He was/is an orpington breeder. That is where the orpington blood came from.

So what I am probably dealing with is the birchen from the polish and dun from orpingtons.




I just located a number for Jay Horn, so I will try to get some information about the birds he bred later today.