The Buckeye Thread

[Wasson6Pack]

I have a question that is for all kinds of birds, but because the man I was watching was talking about Buckeyes at the time. He said that a person shouldn't bring in outside genetics. Now let me explain, he says that you should start with as many birds as you can (300+) and split them in to several 'families' which you cull the ones that aren't SOP and keep the best of the best. I am guessing you can eventually cross breed your families, but he says not to bring in Joe's rooster to add to your hens and introduce outside genes. He does also talk about changing your Hens and Roos the next year to keep the best with the best. Does this make sense? I see so many people saying they would like to trade a roo for a roo so they can change up the genes and I would think that you would want new genes in the mix.

Thoughts?

 

[Sydney Acres]

I have a question that is for all kinds of birds, but because the man I was watching was talking about Buckeyes at the time. He said that a person shouldn't bring in outside genetics. Now let me explain, he says that you should start with as many birds as you can (300+) and split them in to several 'families' which you cull the ones that aren't SOP and keep the best of the best. I am guessing you can eventually cross breed your families, but he says not to bring in Joe's rooster to add to your hens and introduce outside genes. He does also talk about changing your Hens and Roos the next year to keep the best with the best. Does this make sense? I see so many people saying they would like to trade a roo for a roo so they can change up the genes and I would think that you would want new genes in the mix.

Thoughts?

That is a common practice with birds, not mammals, as birds do not suffer from inbreeding as much as mammals. If you go to the BYC Dorking Club, one of the frequent posters is Yellow House Farm. Put the cursor over his name and you can pull up all his posts. I can't remember when, but he once posted an excellent explanation of this method of rotational or rolling breeding. I believe that he has also posted that article on the website for the Dorking Club of America. There are some important specifics with this technique, so be sure you get the full explanation before you start.

 

[Fred's Hens]

I see so many people saying they would like to trade a roo for a roo so they can change up the genes and I would think that you would want new genes in the mix.

Thoughts?

When you are breeding, you want a stable gene pool. Among the 1000's of possibilities within your birds, you're trying to narrow down to just the right traits to express themselves in the way you want them to. No surprises. Stability is a virtue. Bringing in outside blood sounds good, but you're really bringing in a whole new set of possibilities and variables of genes expressing themselves in unpredictable and random ways. That isn't a good thing. Once a "line" or "strain" of a breed is reproducing generation after generation of great birds, the work is to merely tweak, improve and sloooooowly deal with the remaining issues.

Bringing in "outside" blood can sometimes really set you back and you have to start again to try to bring stability and predictability to the offspring. Birds are indeed much different from mammals, that is a true statement. Just my own perspective, entirely for what it is worth.

 

[Blueface]

I have a question that is for all kinds of birds, but because the man I was watching was talking about Buckeyes at the time.  He said that a person shouldn't bring in outside genetics.  Now let me explain, he says that you should start with as many birds as you can (300+) and  split them in to several 'families' which you cull the ones that aren't SOP and keep the best of the best.  I am guessing you can eventually cross breed your families, but he says not to bring in Joe's rooster to add to your hens and introduce outside genes.  He does also talk about changing your Hens and Roos the next year to keep the best with the best.  Does this make sense?  I see so many people saying they would like to trade a roo for a roo so they can change up the genes and I would think that you would want new genes in the mix.

Thoughts?

300+ buckeyes?!?!? I wouldn't want that feed bill! If you have to bring in that many birds to get a decent start; you better look again at who you're getting birds from. There are several ways to breed birds but I wouldn't recommend that one for multiple reasons. From my experiences there are only a couple lines out there that are worth a darn so being selective right there is your best bet. Pay what the breeder asks to get into his breeding stock and that will pay for itself over time. You'll be far better off and you won't have to raise 1000 birds to get 2-3 decent specimens. I've read about examples of such breeding techniques and all I can say is that I hope you like eating chicken . In reality all you need is a couple decent birds and line breed from there. Select traits and move forward. I started with just a pair; a male from one farm and a female from another. I selectively bred these birds and have been very successful with them. Good luck and use a bit of common sense.

 

[slfarms]

Great information and help blueface and freds hens. I agree with both. I'm working with one gene pool. One male and three hens. Basic start which I know will be difficult. But, I've seen it work for others. There is no way to gather 300+ buckeyes for a gene pool and not have complications.

 

[007medic]

I have to say I agree with bluface3 on this one. 300+ birds to start with? Yikes! Better to be selective in your starting stock, say a trio of one line/family where the three aren't first degree related (not brother/sisters of the same hatch/pairing). Breed them with a trap nest so you know what pairing produces what, hatch and raise a couple of clutches to see how they develop. This will provide you the opportunity to learn your birds strong points and points to improve so that you can make informed decisions on how to proceed.

On a semi related point. So many people want to see results and a finished product in such a short amount of time. Folks think that if they buy this bird or that bird (or a whole mess of birds) they'll achieve their goals without all the time investment. For those with success using those strategies, I say "you're one lucky person". Breeding is an art of training your eye, making shrewd decisions, understanding basic breeding principles and good poultry husbandry. That my friends is a skill set not bought, or learned overnight and is eminently satisfying in it's acquirement. Take enjoyment in learning and breeding your birds. Seek out and pursue seasoned mentors. Keep an open heart, mind and ear. Above all avoid elitism -thinking that yours (or someone else's) is the only way/approach is the death of any program.

 

[buffalogal]

Congratulations cgmccary and thank you for making the effort to take such nice Buckeyes to Knoxville. In case there were people new to the breed going to a show, it's good to know the birds they did get to see were such high quality. With all the ice and snow in Kentucky and points west, it's amazing as many people were able to attend as did. With well over 5,000 birds, I've been told was the largest poultry show ever in the south.

 

[slfarms]

Congratulations cgmccary and thank you for making the effort to take such nice Buckeyes to Knoxville. In case there were people new to the breed going to a show, it's good to know the birds they did get to see were such high quality. With all the ice and snow in Kentucky and points west, it's amazing as many people were able to attend as did. With well over 5,000 birds, I've been told was the largest poultry show ever in the south.

Congratulations, did he win something big and not share? Any win for a buckeye is something to crow about. My understanding was his were the only three buckeyes there in the open class. It's to bad others couldn't have joined the show due to weather etc. The pics showed a lot of birds, it looked as large as ON.

 

[Blueface]

Congratulations cgmccary and thank you for making the effort to take such nice Buckeyes to Knoxville. In case there were people new to the breed going to a show, it's good to know the birds they did get to see were such high quality. With all the ice and snow in Kentucky and points west, it's amazing as many people were able to attend as did. With well over 5,000 birds, I've been told was the largest poultry show ever in the south.

Congrats, best of breed against 3 birds. Keep up the good work

 

[cgmccary]

Congrats, best of breed against 3 birds. Keep up the good work

Thanks Bluface3! I will.