The Buckeye Thread

[Pathfinders]

It just seems that some people who are obsessed with getting a specifically "dark red" color lose sight of type in the process.

Edited by staff

 

[Blueface]

Top color:
There has been much debate when discussing the Buckeyes exterior feather color. This debate revolves around how dark red the mahogany color should be. With today’s advanced technology, colors can be conveyed with better understooding with actual pictures rather than interpretations from a book that are nearly 100 years old.

The 2010 standard suggests that the general surface color be an even shade of rich mahogany-bay in all sections, with the exception the unexposed primaries and secondaries and the main tail feathers may contain black. According to the APA definitions, mahogany is "a deep, glowing reddish brown" and bay is defined as "a light-golden brown". Putting those two definitions together should make alot of sense; right? The definition to mahogany-bay is fairly broad considering a “Google Search” of mahogany-bay and color; the search engine delivers a series of equine coat colors. None of which are “mahogany-bay”, however dark bay ( very dark red hair; sometimes also called "mahogany-bay" ) does register. This would lead me to believe that mahogany-bay is a relatively dark shade of red approaching dark mahogany, like that of today’s accepted Rhode Island Red color. From that description, difficulty observing anything "light-golden" is witnessed.

In the introduction to the breed, the standard references that the Buckeye is an american breed originating in Ohio, the “Buckeye State”, with the color similar to the richly colored buckeye nut . That being said, the buckeye nut appears to be a darker shade of red than many of the Buckeyes observed on the internet through any basic web search.

When digging a bit deeper and reading through the articles that Mrs. Nettie Metcalf published. The color was described in better detail; “--for my hens had that brown red surface like a ripe buckeye and the males were mostly a maroon red .” Mrs. Metcalf goes onto write; “The R.I. Reds are a sorrel and the Buckeyes a dark bay red, comparing them as one would cattle or horses of the same shades…..The Buckeye, as bred ideally, is as much darker in shade ..” (Pacific Fancier, 1909).

Later in 1917, Mrs. Metcalf wrote; “As for color—well, my own are so dark a red that at a little distance in the shadow they look fairly black, but when the sun strikes them and brings out that rich, garnish luster”. She goes on to write; “…with the very darkest of red plumage, hens containing some black not being objectionable to me as long as the males kept that dark red shade I admire.” (Poultry Success, 1917).

The information above suggests that the “true” color is a dark, deeper mahogany color; void of ANYTHING "light-golden".

The rich, vibrant sheen (glossy appearance) of the Buckeye will readily separate its dark appearance in color from the now; darker mahogany Rhode Island Red. Quality of brood stock, proper breeding techniques and a balanced diet separates average birds from what Mrs. Metcalf envisioned for this wonderful breed!

I think I read that somewhere?!!? Excellent points and it makes sense!! 30% is still a pretty big chunk of change and can play out to hurt you even if the type is "perfect"!!!! If its not correct it can definitely prevent you from advancing!!! A lot of judges like that DARK color that is for sure!!

 

[LSBuckOE]

It just seems that some people who are obsessed with getting a specifically "dark red" color lose sight of type in the process. 

Not what I've seen, honestly. The darker birds seem to have the overall type, 85% of the time. Guess it goes back to the saying "You have to build a barn before you paint it".

And those "obsessed" with the color will surely be obsessed with type as well. That's how quality birds are developed, Laura.

 

[Blueface]

No, not here they haven't. Elsewhere, yes,

And this needs to be on this forum? Why? Aren't we here to talk about buckeyes!

 

[fowlman01]

Ok, so this begs the question:

If you were judging two Buckeyes, and one had a great deal of slate bar (all over) and one had a lesser amount (and that only in the saddle feathers), and the one with the lesser amount had superior type, that bird would be placed higher, yes?

It is always superior type over undercolor.....all things being equal. The color of undercolor needs to be the color specified by the Standard in the place the Standards says it should be. Colors used for breeding and undercolor used for breeding have nothing to do with what judges do while judging. If it is not in the Standard, the judge should not use it in judging. Qualities that are used for attaining certain colors are not to superceed what the Standard says.

Walt

 

[Pathfinders]

It is always superior type over undercolor.....all things being equal. The color of undercolor needs to be the color specified by the Standard in the place the Standards says it should be. Colors used for breeding and undercolor used for breeding have nothing to do with what judges do while judging. If it is not in the Standard, the judge should not use it in judging. Qualities that are used for attaining certain colors are not to superceed what the Standard says.

Walt

Perfectly stated. Thank you.

 

[fowlman01]

Not what I've seen, honestly. The darker birds seem to have the overall type, 85% of the time. Guess it goes back to the saying "You have to build a barn before you paint it".

And those "obsessed" with the color will surely be obsessed with type as well. That's how quality birds are developed, Laura.

I wish that was true, but it rarely is. Most people get hung up on color at the expense of type......I see that all the time. To be honest a judge is going to use undercolor as the last consideration if he/she had two birds of equal type.

w.

 

[Blueface]

It just seems that some people who are obsessed with getting a specifically "dark red" color lose sight of type in the process. 

Assuming....you shouldn't assume things! Maybe those who are obsessed with color already have acceptable type?!?!? It is entirely possible and they like a dark buckeye! Type isn't everything to everyone; especially if it was good to begin with. If you have the necessary traits that a buckeye should possess; then "type" just falls right into place

 

[Blueface]

I thought we were here to learn? So let's learn; how about I just show parts of a bird and not the whole thing! Would that be acceptable; I have a great example of a buckeye with a poor foundation and looks knock kneed. Which is a grave mistake with all poultry! A couple of narrow backs as well, small heads, poor width between the legs.....but really nice chests!!!! Lets learn about type?!?!?

 

[LSBuckOE]

Okay rephrase as "good" breeders, I guess