The Buckeye Thread

[cgmccary]

nevermind

 

[bunnibird55]

I was at ON and looked very closely at the Buckeyes and I liked what I saw in some of the Buckeyes. Period. I know I have only raised and bred them for three years, but there were some very nice sized pullets and hens there. I am not sure why anyone would say they were undersized. Of course if you looked at the Brahmas first, then of course they were smaller. I was happy to see such a nice representation. I think the Buckeye people should start working together a bit more to promote this breed and support each other's accomplishments instead of tearing down other people and their birds. Start saying what you like about a bird and build on that. I understand there are politics in Buckeyes, but really people, can't you be nice for once and be happy that the Buckeye popularity is growing and that people are trying to build a great chicken? I love the Buckeyes and their personality, beauty, history and dual purpose. Let's please start working together and focus on having class!

 

[slfarms]

Isn't tail angle written into the SOP and part of type?

As for the weight of the birds maybe the judges should start weighing each bird as it's a critical part of the SOP. If the judges who had their hands on the birds yesterday stated they were small then it wasn't just a visual impression by others. And not one set of bucks were singled out it sounded all inclusive?!?! So all breeders need to look at, weigh and ensure they bring birds that match or are close to SOP. IMO

I've held cockerels, pullets, cocks and hens that match SOP weight and use that to visually judge if a buckeye is close to standard as you learn how "large" they should stand, widths between the legs, widths of back. Of course I couldn't feel the ones yesterday but visually they all appeared small.

Just my opinion and I'm sure you all will tear it apart. Which is fine. As breeders we all have opinions of how the birds should look and feel when it comes to the standard.

As for Nettie saying "Mere" show birds that's in reference to her needs of the time. If you are going to show them they should follow the standard, if you are going to use them for utility they don't have to be show room floor conditioned.

 

[bunnibird55]

I agree we all need to stick to the SOP as closely as possible to build the breed. I just know there are people who are really trying to build the breed and I talked to some fantastically wonderful and helpful people at ON. I am still GLOWING from getting to my first big show in my life and would really love to have us all sit down and compare what we have and how we are working to improve our flocks. I love my Bucks and think I know some areas I need to improve and would like to have helpful opinions on where others think my birds need to improve, but honestly, I am scared to death that some of the people would only elaborate on negatives and not mention any of the areas in which the birds are following the SOP. Yes I saw some of the pullets at the show were smaller than I would like and some of the combs need some work, but I still love the Buckeyes and believe we can work together to make them better! A positive note off topic, the people who caught their Mandarin after it flew through the building this morning were ecstatic to get him back!

 

[Blueface]

I know Laura weighs her birds, and she would not show a bird underweight by the SOP. Unless you picked up & handled the bird or used scales, the weight cannot be determined. I have looked at birds, and I cannot discern weight by looking (I have been wrong about the weight on looking) it is just a guess. Generally, a bird with loose and more feathering about the body will often appear heavier. Conversely, a bird with tighter feathering about the body will appear underweight. Again, generally.

For me, a Buckeye's shank thickness hints of its weight as does (better) its heart girth (if one knows the breed well).

My disagreement with the comments had to do with the breed overall (i.e. that breeders need to work on weight for the breed overall). The problem with the breed being underweight disappeared with the ALBC's recovery of the breed (now, "Livestock Conservancy," not ALBC) as they added more than a pound in a couple of years careful breeding and selection. Generally, this has not changed. There might have been other American breed(s) that were oversized, and it made the Buckeyes look smaller. I can see this happening.

I advise to weigh your birds; I weigh all mine. It seems I remember at a show in the past, your bird's weight being "misjudged" (if I remember correctly you telling me about the incident - I do not remember if it was judged over or under) - this happens. Also, it has not been that long ago when I was showing and in showing 2009-2013, I saw no weight issues with Buckeyes generally.

I'm sure she does; but they looked small! The judges at the ON look at many many birds in the class. It is their opinion and nothing more. In exhibition there is more that needs to be there besides just the weight. Weight will take you only so far! Tight feathering was certainly not a problem! They were pretty puffy! Heart girth is just fraction of the overall type. The standard states that these birds should be an even width throughout the length and I noticed that to be an issue with many of the birds. A big wide chest isn't everything.

"The problem with the breed being underweight disappeared with the ALBC's recovery of the ALBC as they added more than a pound in a couple of years careful breeding and selection."

Every time I hear that phrase I can't help to role my eyes. I'm glad they got someone to believe that! I really am. The ALBC got several different birds from different sources and "carefully" bred them together. This produces a hybrid which will naturally be bigger and have greater vigor. They then fed the product meat maker or at least something will greater protein like you would a Cornish rock. Does this for a two or three years and walla you magically have added a pound. It's not that big of an accomplishment because we have been doing this in the gamefowl world for quite a while. It's amazing the things that can accomplished with a couple crosses and appropriate feed.

What I find a bit humorous is that my flock doesn't have a single gene of that ALBC stuff and they are perfect weight with respectable type! I can attribute that to the ALBC I guess . There are also other flocks that have great weight distribution that have nothing to do with the ALBC either. I'd agree that that very statement that was made is excellent on paper, PowerPoint presentations, and on a computer monitor; it looks good but it's hardly the truth if you ask me!

 

[MnMPoultry]

Fan of Buckeyes for years... Finally able to dedicate properly the time to the breed (as well as a couple of other heritage breeds) and will be picking up my start at the end of the month! Just wanted to say hello and introduce myself.

Matthew Burpo

 

[slfarms]

Fan of Buckeyes for years... Finally able to dedicate properly the time to the breed (as well as a couple of other heritage breeds) and will be picking up my start at the end of the month! Just wanted to say hello and introduce myself.

Matthew Burpo

Welcome Matthew!!!

 

[Blueface]

 I disagree. It may or may not. Tail angle can have to do with the pope's nose and have nothing to do with type. If angle is off, then sometimes it can be because of a defect in the body (as you say). However, what I have seen with Buckeyes is mostly it has to do with the angle of the pope's nose (and nothing else) and NOT a defect in the birds' body (at least in my line; your line may be different - and account for our difference of opinion).

Rather than focus on the pope's nose, I am more interested in my birds' body depth, length of back, width of bird, etc. These traits are determined by picking up and handling the bird. By doing this, you determine if you have a fault in body or is it a pope's nose issue IF you truly have an issue at all.

As you are aware, a bird can also "choose" to hold its tail up or down for a variety of reasons.

I supposed we are going to have to agree to disagree. The way a bird carries itself has everything to do with type, IMO. Especially the angle in which the bird carries its tail vertically. I can see if the bird is wry tailed or horizontal issues; the popes nose may be to blame but nothing more.

It all goes back to brood stock if you ask me! I've seen numerous pictures of the broodstock that was used and the result closely resembles that of mommy and daddy! The fruit never falls far from the tree so to speak. You can scroll back through the posts and you can connect the dots; it's genetic, so is how a bird carries its tail vertically hence it's directly related to type!

There is more to showing poultry that just a big body. It is very important but there is more to the "type" of the bird that just a big carcass.

I guess one can use the excuse of "owe it's tail is off due it being showed" but that really only goes so far. What you see is often what you get. When you see the same thing show after show after show; one begins to wonder?

 

[buckeyechicken]

Fan of Buckeyes for years... Finally able to dedicate properly the time to the breed (as well as a couple of other heritage breeds) and will be picking up my start at the end of the month! Just wanted to say hello and introduce myself.

Matthew Burpo

Welcome Matthew

 

[Blueface]

Fan of Buckeyes for years... Finally able to dedicate properly the time to the breed (as well as a couple of other heritage breeds) and will be picking up my start at the end of the month! Just wanted to say hello and introduce myself.

Matthew Burpo

That is awesome! Good for you and good luck with them! Buckeyes are an awesome breed!