The Buckeye Thread

[Blueface]

hehehe.....such a wonderful question Mr. or Mrs. Hatch. I'm hardly a "guru" but I'm a sight better that mess that once dawned the forum. How to answer such a baited question. I have to ensure I don't get myself into trouble. I first must ask, how have you done showing in the past couple of years? Was it a quick one and done or are you going to make come-back tour?

I appreciate the rally cry I've heard of late about my "Best" being beaten. So my “Best” (IMO) was overlooked for lesser quality birds a time or two? Considering how much I actually exhibited compared to EVERYBODY else.....those are terrific odds in my favor (you can check my website below for the actual number if you need a refresher). If I’m not terribly mistaken, this hobby is completely subjective and not every judge views the breed the same way. I don’t really think it matters all that much considering my “Best” has gained enough recognition to become the most winning buckeye in history. Furthermore, I’ve been recognized by both Ohio State governing bodies and the APA for my achievements with the buckeye breed. What has anyone else REALLY accomplished with the breed? I suppose one can always have their birds “certified” to make them seem legit or pat themselves on the back for only getting "Best of Breed" with the inability to advance. I was told that the buckeye had no chance of consistently winning the class. I was later told that there would probably never be a Grand Master for the breed and to get off of my “high-horse”. It’s amazing what can happen if someone is determined and in such a short amount of time.

This orange colored, fluffy version that is floating around are never going to make the grade. I’ve been contacted by numerous people that have fallen victim to the orange plague and are now seeking a more representative example of the Buckeye breed, so the word is getting out regarding the preferential buckeye of choice. Many judges are taking note as well and I am hearing comments regarding this very thing.

Your tagline says "Where we raise and exhibit Buckeyes and Only Buckeyes"...........how is the KY special doing for you?

 

[Jeff Lay]

Blueface… Being the sites resident Buckeye guru I have a question for you. There have been times when your birds have competed against other Buckeyes (most notably at a show in Georgia and Tennessee) and yours did not win. Here’s the question… did the best bird win or was some other factor at play??

I'm obviously not "Blueface" but anyone who does a few poultry shows will tell you a lot has to do with the judging aside from the condition of the bird at ANY show! In my opinion, one show does not measure the caliber of any bird, Buckeye or otherwise, it really boils down to how many Championships do you have under your belt. Finally, it isn't about ONE bird either and everyone should look at the body of work a breeder has achieved during his or her time breeding them.

My 2 cents,

Jeff

 

[Blueface]

So very true Jeff, the body of work is indeed very important. Throughout my few years breeding. I've been able to put a bird from EVERY generation on Champion Row....that itself is a great thing for the breed. I've worked very hard with the buckeye and my efforts are represented well.

 

[Jeff Lay]

An example of the difference in judging is pretty clear when you look at "double events" or "dual shows" where the classes are judged by one judge (or group of judges) in the morning and another judge (or group of judges) do the same later in the day or the next day. Nothing has changed with the birds from the first show to the second show yet seldom do the judges pick the same Champions! To the "newbies" to poultry exhibition this seems shocking but to those who have been at this game for a while they know judging isn't always cut and dry and there is significant variation in what judges like and see in various fowl. When it comes to the Buckeye, we hear a lot of judges say they just don't see a lot of them in certain parts of the USA and no offense to the APA or any of their judges but some of them don't know every detail of the SoP for every breed! When it comes to the American Class (Large Fowl) in general there are several APA judges that we see at many of the Midwest shows who do an excellent job judging the Buckeyes and do so consistently. Keep in mind the Buckeye standard can be interpreted very differently by some folks, even APA judges! Recently on a Facebook forum a well known APA judge informed me that a Buckeye should NOT have a Black tail nor should it have Black in the wing.....all these years I've been breeding my Buckeyes wrong! ;-)

 

[Blueface]

Jeff, its the fall; right before the ON......I've noticed a sort of "rally cry" a brewing to bolster support for the "cause", just like we heard last fall and the fall before that. The buckeye is a great breed and the cream always rises in the end. I'll just go about business as usual and try to remain consistent. I wouldn't advise breeding a Red tail though.

 

[Jeff Lay]

So very true Jeff, the body of work is indeed very important. Throughout my few years breeding. I've been able to put a bird from EVERY generation on Champion Row....that itself is a great thing for the breed. I've worked very hard with the buckeye and my efforts are represented well.

Folks, this is especially important if you are wanting "Exhibition" Buckeyes or looking for a breeder of Buckeyes who is not a flash in the pan! As many people know, Joe knows this better than most because he isn't just a Buckeye breeder he has judged fowl as well, at the end of the day the BEST birds don't always go home with the trophy or blue ribbon. One minor defect, a broken wing feather, the bird isn't at his or her peak best on that given day can mean the difference in getting on Champion Row or going home with Second place! It's those breeders who go to show after show, year after year and get their birds on Champion Row again and again who ultimately rise to the top, regardless of the breed.

The old saying, "even a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then" comes to mind with some folks showing Buckeyes.....I will and have applauded other Buckeye breeders wins especially when they put a Buckeye on Champion Row because in the end it's the Buckeye breed that is important in my eyes and not just us mortals! The Buckeye needs to be our focus and not worshiping an individual or a single achievement. My personal experience with Buckeye breeding far exceeds my "show room" experience. I have little desire to participate in poultry exhibition but realize it is important for any breeds future. Goals for showing poultry can be very different, mine is to see what judges think of the Buckeyes I am currently breeding and if they are good examples of the breed. Nearly every Buckeye I have taken to a show has been sold at the end of that show, too! This spring was the first time I took the same cockerel to two different shows just to see what two different judges thought of him. It was interesting to say the least and only emphasized my belief that judges have very different opinions with respect to the Buckeye.

Well, now I'm just rambling but my point here is "Focus on improving your Buckeyes" and let everything else fall by the wayside!

 

[slfarms]

Folks, this is especially important if you are wanting "Exhibition" Buckeyes or looking for a breeder of Buckeyes who is not a flash in the pan!  As many people know, Joe knows this better than most because he isn't just a Buckeye breeder he has judged fowl as well, at the end of the day the BEST birds don't always go home with the trophy or blue ribbon. One minor defect, a broken wing feather, the bird isn't at his or her peak best on that given day can mean the difference in getting on Champion Row or going home with Second place! It's those breeders who go to show after show, year after year and get their birds on Champion Row again and again who ultimately rise to the top, regardless of the breed.

 
The old saying, "even a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then" comes to mind with some folks showing Buckeyes.....I will and have applauded other Buckeye breeders wins especially when they put a Buckeye on Champion Row because in the end it's the Buckeye breed that is important in my eyes and not just us mortals! The Buckeye needs to be our focus and not worshiping an individual or a single achievement.  My personal experience with Buckeye breeding far exceeds my "show room" experience. I have little desire to participate in poultry exhibition but realize it is important for any breeds future. Goals for showing poultry can be very different, mine is to see what judges think of the Buckeyes I am currently breeding and if they are good examples of the breed. Nearly every Buckeye I have taken to a show has been sold at the end of that show, too! This spring was the first time I took the same cockerel to two different shows just to see what two different judges thought of him. It was interesting to say the least and only emphasized my belief that judges have very different opinions with respect to the Buckeye.


Well, now I'm just rambling but my point here is "Focus on improving your Buckeyes" and let everything else fall by the wayside!

Well said.

 

[Jeff Lay]

Jeff, its the fall; right before the ON......I've noticed a sort of "rally cry" a brewing to bolster support for the "cause", just like we heard last fall and the fall before that. The buckeye is a great breed and the cream always rises in the end. I'll just go about business as usual and try to remain consistent. I wouldn't advise breeding a Red tail though.

Yup, been going on since 2008 by a few folks who think individuals are more important than the Buckeye breed......or should I say tearing down others in an attempt to build themselves up!?!?!?!

Keep your focus on the Buckeye, Joe and don't worry about the trolls or folks who can't see the forest for the trees. We (edited) know you have the Buckeye's future in your heart and no matter what the "haters" say or post on the old interweb your body of work speaks for itself!

 

[poltroon]

The Buckeye is coming back from a long dark decline, and this is a reason to celebrate. We don't have the depth of breeder/exhibitors with decades of experience as some other breeds do. We're barely even at one decade for most people showing them now.

I have judged competitions, though not poultry, and certainly there are many factors - what other entries are there, lighting, a judge's personal outlook, condition, whether the animal is just feeling like a jerk or less perky that day. I have known the joy of picking a winner in a competition full of great quality choices, and the heartache of picking the least worst, all while jetlagged and/or after being on my feet for 10 hours.

Some judges are going to know Buckeyes well and some do not, but even the ones that do not probably have something to teach you. Any time you find yourself saying, "That judge was just stupid," you're probably overlooking something you should take to heart. It can be as simple as how the bird looks in the cage is not how the bird feels when you actually handle it, and exhibitors don't get to handle the other birds.

To me the most interesting show results are when you see lots of Buckeyes of all genders and ages all together, where the judge really has to think about why they like this particular bird over that other one. And of course, the larger the show overall, the more that particular bird really has to stick with the judge as a favorite rather than "Oh, this one wasn't too bad, I could use it."

I find for myself that my evaluations of the birds running around in the garden is often different from how they present in a cage. It doesn't make the judge wrong or me wrong, it's really that the birds can present quite differently at home versus in a show atmosphere, handled for a couple of minutes by a stranger. But even when I disagree with the outcome, I find myself learning new things and reevaluating what I thought and why. Sometimes I incorporate it and sometimes I dismiss it, but the thinking process is what is most valuable to me.

And, for me, choosing breeding animals is a bit more multidimensional than one show, one day anyway. I care about the bird's sturdiness, temperament, and I may be looking for particular qualities that might make one animal a keeper even though when the show comes around the feathers are a little awkward or maybe it's a little small. IE, there are birds that we will never show that are nevertheless valuable breeding animals to us. But I learn and grow every time I get to interact with other people and get to view other people's birds. It helps me to see what is special (or not) about ours and also what qualities they might lack compared to others.

I fight "barn-blindness" in all the animals I work with... it is important to stay objective about your own flock.

 

[poltroon]

Not quite 6 month pullet out in the garden...