The case of the mysteriously dying guinea keets

[LaurelC]

I’ve raised nearly 2 hundred chicks, including 6 guinea fowl I picked up as keets at the feed store and a couple batches of chicks I’ve incubated from eggs from my chicken flock. I’ve brooded them all similarly, and had pretty good success, I may have lost 5 overall before this.

My brooder setup is a couple of heat lamps, one low, one higher, allowing for concentrated heat if the birds get cool as well as less concentrated heat for if they just want a bit of extra warmth, and plenty of room for them to escape the heat overall. I use a slightly elevated sheet pan with a wire mesh rack over it to keep shavings out of the waterer, and offer either unmedicated chick starter or 20% protein all flock crumbles. I’ve used both large pine shavings and the shredded aspen fiber bedding with success. I currently have a “maternity ward” coop with 3 hens raising their own clutches of chicks that are using the aspen fiber bedding.

My neighbor gave me a clutch of guinea eggs and I incubated them, after all of the pipped eggs had hatched(10 total) and the keets were dry, I transferred them to one of my mobile coops that I had cleared out, pressure washed, and set up in brooder mode, as described above. I scrubbed out the waterer that I’ve been using as a secondary in my maternity ward coop, and filled it with filtered water and a little bit of poultry nutrient-drench to help with stress. I rinsed out the feeder and filled it from the same bag of all flock crumbles that my mama hens and chicks have been eating from for weeks. The brooder’s bedding was the aspen fiber. The brooder is parked under a recently built lean-to structure next to our farm shop building. When I transferred the keets to the brooder, like with every chick I get, as I moved each one into the brooder, I dipped their beaks in the water so they’d know where it was, and the food was right next to it.

The keets hatched over the weekend and on Friday, the first keet died. Weird? But it was a one off, so I was bummed but moved on. The next morning, 2 more were dead. I lowered the “hot” light a little bit as my thermometer logged that it was getting down to 95 degrees at night and maybe they were cold(this didn’t seem likely as they had been fine til then, but it was my only guess)? Dead keets were kind of scattered around, no rhyme or reason to their locations, they were mostly sprawled out on their tummies. No apparent injuries or trauma. By Saturday afternoon 5 more had died and on Sunday morning the final two were dead.

I’m obviously upset, and confused. I’ve brooded guineas before with a pile of chicks and they thrived. I’m not sure what caused the losses, but I have a few hundred dollars worth of chicks arriving this week and I want to make sure I don’t have a repeat, so I would love some theories as to what caused this. Right now my best guess is that they decided to eat the aspen fiber shavings? Coccidiosis doesn’t seem likely as I never saw any weird or wet poop. No pasty butts.

I removed all of the bedding and blew the brooder out, I took the waterer and feeder and tray out and ran them through my dishwasher just in case. I’m planning to grab pine shavings tomorrow as they’re a bit harder to eat than the aspen fibers.

 

[R2elk]

I’ve raised nearly 2 hundred chicks, including 6 guinea fowl I picked up as keets at the feed store and a couple batches of chicks I’ve incubated from eggs from my chicken flock. I’ve brooded them all similarly, and had pretty good success, I may have lost 5 overall before this.

My brooder setup is a couple of heat lamps, one low, one higher, allowing for concentrated heat if the birds get cool as well as less concentrated heat for if they just want a bit of extra warmth, and plenty of room for them to escape the heat overall. I use a slightly elevated sheet pan with a wire mesh rack over it to keep shavings out of the waterer, and offer either unmedicated chick starter or 20% protein all flock crumbles. I’ve used both large pine shavings and the shredded aspen fiber bedding with success. I currently have a “maternity ward” coop with 3 hens raising their own clutches of chicks that are using the aspen fiber bedding.

My neighbor gave me a clutch of guinea eggs and I incubated them, after all of the pipped eggs had hatched(10 total) and the keets were dry, I transferred them to one of my mobile coops that I had cleared out, pressure washed, and set up in brooder mode, as described above. I scrubbed out the waterer that I’ve been using as a secondary in my maternity ward coop, and filled it with filtered water and a little bit of poultry nutrient-drench to help with stress. I rinsed out the feeder and filled it from the same bag of all flock crumbles that my mama hens and chicks have been eating from for weeks. The brooder’s bedding was the aspen fiber. The brooder is parked under a recently built lean-to structure next to our farm shop building. When I transferred the keets to the brooder, like with every chick I get, as I moved each one into the brooder, I dipped their beaks in the water so they’d know where it was, and the food was right next to it.

The keets hatched over the weekend and on Friday, the first keet died. Weird? But it was a one off, so I was bummed but moved on. The next morning, 2 more were dead. I lowered the “hot” light a little bit as my thermometer logged that it was getting down to 95 degrees at night and maybe they were cold(this didn’t seem likely as they had been fine til then, but it was my only guess)? Dead keets were kind of scattered around, no rhyme or reason to their locations, they were mostly sprawled out on their tummies. No apparent injuries or trauma. By Saturday afternoon 5 more had died and on Sunday morning the final two were dead.

I’m obviously upset, and confused. I’ve brooded guineas before with a pile of chicks and they thrived. I’m not sure what caused the losses, but I have a few hundred dollars worth of chicks arriving this week and I want to make sure I don’t have a repeat, so I would love some theories as to what caused this. Right now my best guess is that they decided to eat the aspen fiber shavings? Coccidiosis doesn’t seem likely as I never saw any weird or wet poop. No pasty butts.

I removed all of the bedding and blew the brooder out, I took the waterer and feeder and tray out and ran them through my dishwasher just in case. I’m planning to grab pine shavings tomorrow as they’re a bit harder to eat than the aspen fibers.

Do not put keets on shavings for at least the first 2 weeks. They eat the shavings and cannot digest them. If you have them on shavings make sure they are supplied with appropriate sized grit.

Keets need a high protein turkey or game bird starter that has the higher amounts of lysine, methionine and niacin they need for proper development.

I start keets at 90⁰F measured at the bedding level. I use a brooder big enough that there are warm and cool zones. The food and water are kept in the cool zone.

I strongly advise against brooding keets and chicks together due to the problems that imprinting can cause once they are adults.

 

[LaurelC]

Do not put keets on shavings for at least the first 2 weeks. They eat the shavings and cannot digest them. If you have them on shavings make sure they are supplied with appropriate sized grit.

Keets need a high protein turkey or game bird starter that has the higher amounts of lysine, methionine and niacin they need for proper development.

I start keets at 90⁰F measured at the bedding level. I use a brooder big enough that there are warm and cool zones. The food and water are kept in the cool zone.

I strongly advise against brooding keets and chicks together due to the problems that imprinting can cause once they are adults.

Thank you so much for the reply! And it’s great to know that it’s likely that they ate the shavings. What do folks usually use for bedding? Puppy pads or paper towels? Would offering grit have made a difference in this case? With chicks I usually wait til they’re a couple weeks old, introduce grit, then a few days later chunks of grass with roots to dig through, before gradually allowing access to outdoors.

I’ve become aware that they need a higher protein food now upon additional research. Is it likely that the 20% protein feed (that claims to be fine for game birds, but is not strictly a starter feed) was a part of the equation? Since our last batch of guineas ate this feed exclusively I didn’t initially consider that it might be a concern until after most of them had died already.

Re: temp - since our brooder is relatively large 6x8’ I tend to place the light so that overnight lows under the hottest part of the hot light are around a hundred degrees for the first week of life, as there is plenty of space for the critters to modulate the amount of heat they get.

Since we rely on the guineas to be habituated to life with chickens as they share housing with our flock of layers and need to go to bed inside our mobile coops at night to prevent predation, we raise them with the chickens.

 

[R2elk]

What do folks usually use for bedding?

I live on a sand dune so I use the free sand for bedding. It has various sized grains and serves the purpose of grit too.

Is it likely that the 20% protein feed (that claims to be fine for game birds, but is not strictly a starter feed) was a part of the equation?

The low protein will harm their development but should not kill them. The higher lysine, methionine and niacin levels are also very important for their proper growth and development.

One of the problems with feeds that are not appropriate is the number of unethical manufacturers that make false claims. Many of them have no idea of the nutritional requirements of anything other than chickens.

Re: temp - since our brooder is relatively large 6x8’ I tend to place the light so that overnight lows under the hottest part of the hot light are around a hundred degrees for the first week of life,

I would not have the bedding level area at 100°F for any chicks, keets or poults. All they would have to do is fall asleep at that temp and they may never wake up again.

I start all chicks, keets and poults with a bedding level temperature of 90°F under the brooder heater. My brooder is 4' x 4'.

 

[R2elk]

Since we rely on the guineas to be habituated to life with chickens as they share housing with our flock of layers and need to go to bed inside our mobile coops at night to prevent predation, we raise them with the chickens.

Imprinting keets with chickens removes their ability to understand that there is a difference between them and chickens.

Guineas have entirely different instincts than any other poultry. Everything can seem fine right up until their first breeding season when they start treating the chickens the same as they treat each other. The chickens do not understand the races and chases along with the attacks from behind with the feather pulling and feather breaking.

Chickens do not know how to "submit" in a fashion that the guineas understand which causes the attacks to continue.

 

[LaurelC]

Imprinting keets with chickens removes their ability to understand that there is a difference between them and chickens.

Guineas have entirely different instincts than any other poultry. Everything can seem fine right up until their first breeding season when they start treating the chickens the same as they treat each other. The chickens do not understand the races and chases along with the attacks from behind with the feather pulling and feather breaking.

Chickens do not know how to "submit" in a fashion that the guineas understand which causes the attacks to continue.

Thank you for the input on this. We primarily got the guineas as early predator detection and they've been very effective at getting our and the chickens' attention when there's something afoot. I guess if we try guineas again we will reevaluate this.