The Dragon Bird { Green Peafowls

[FrankYLegend]

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[MinxFox]

Wouldn't it be very costly to get greens from Wolfgang, like in terms of shipping and all that or is shipping not that bad? I noticed that with some US green peafowl breeders the birds look pretty good but they just look short and take on the shape of a domestic India blue as in they don't look so thin and stream lined or something. That always leaves me questioning if that is of any importance or height doesn't matter so much? All I know is I love tall peafowl. I think it is a shame that domestic India blues are short and not as elegant looking like the wild form. The wild form is so beautiful. That is why I like greens, if you get them from the right place they look almost just like the wild form.

 

[Resolution]

“In the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught.”

Baba Dioum

 

[Dany12]

Oops for MinxFox :
https://naturfotografen-forum.de/o3...s[]=img&types[]=art&types[]=pms&submit=Suchen

 

[MinxFox]

Well, although that may be true for some, there are people in this country that care. I won't lie, I first got into peafowl only because I thought they were beautiful, but also since I was little and we visited zoos I would spend more time looking at the peafowl then anything else. One time I stared at a white peacock preening on a balcony at the zoo. There were trees all around creating shade but he was in one patch of sunlight, so it looked like he was glowing. Since then I loved peafowl and I promised myself someday I would get some. I did a lot of research to convince my parents I could take care of them and I knew what I was getting into. I looked at lots of varieties and finally when that zoo closed and sold some of their peafowl, I got a pair from them. Since that day I have learned that there is far more to peafowl then just "pretty looks". I had never had any kind of bird until peafowl and for now I never want another kind of bird other than peafowl. I really care about them and they are like family. When two of my adult peafowl where killed by raccoons this year, I cried especially for my pied male. I felt so lost for a while and nothing has been the same since, but the fact that he left behind peachicks makes me happy that I still have a part of him. What I am trying to say is not all of us are in it for the money or for finding that next variety to get famous or something. We just love peafowl.

Sorry if this was a bit off topic, so let me make it a bit on topic:
When do green peahens get big spurs? I noticed that peahens have fairly big spurs and wondered if unlike India blue peahens they grow spurs fairly long like a male?

Edit:
Oh thanks Dany12, okay yes and so everyone can see the set of pictures:
https://naturfotografen-forum.de/o322244-Green+Peafowl

Thanks sooo much, I am glad you found that!

 

[FrankYLegend]

Quote:
I know that, but he also once pointed there are several more subspecies than just 11, that's just how many plates he has now.

Here more of the subspecies names, some I weren't sure about though.
Pavo cristatus:

1)cristatus-well known & both as wild birds in India and kept as domestic birds worldwide.
2)singhalensis - brighter in colouration and

Pavo annamensis:

1)annamensis
2)bokorensis - may be distinct subspecies
3) "laotius" - Bolovan Plateau, Laotian

North Thailand birds appear to be hybrids between imperator and annamensis.

Pavo imperator:

1) imperator
2) siamensis
3) cattiensis
4) tonkinensis (Hue and Tonkin Imperators)
5) yunnanensis

Pavo spicifer:

1) spicifer
92) "yangonensis" I'm uncertain what this one is but Kermit once mentioned Wolfgang Mennig having one of these
3) tanitharyi - I think Kermit said Shan is the same race as Tennasirim, but they look different[/b]
4) arakensis

Pavo muticus:

1) muticus
2) malacense (formerly found in Isthmus of Kra, in Thailand)

Pavo javanensis:

1) Javanensis - western race
2) Baluranensis - eastern race

Pavo antiqus:

1) antiqus-largest green peafowl.
2) deqenisis

 

[FrankYLegend]

Sorry about that, I really don't think it's Wolfgang's fault at all. He and Fritz deserve to be applauded for their efforts in Green Peafowl conservation. It's more of those people who judge the birds due to their appearances. Like you mentioned a long time ago about a bird with a gun metal hue that was labelled an "ugly hybrid", but it was a rare and invaluable specimen. I just found it strange there is so little information about Green Peafowl in Malaysia right now. Some birds were from Wolfgang's stock while others were Tennasirim and some were Javanese. You are right, I should stop speculating and face the facts. I shouldn't let my own thoughts get the better of me. I think all Peafowl are beautiful and they shouldn't be judged on that. I never look at them as "muticus muticus is the brightest most prettiest" anymore.

I just find this bird strange though, footage Corder filmed in 2007:

http://ibc.lynxeds.com/video/green-peafowl-pavo-muticus/male-preening
I think it's a hybrid between Spicifer and somehting else? It's facial skin is very bright and so are the wings but it has a large build.


And welcome Dani!

It's great to see you on this forum. You should post some of Green Peafowl photos you've found on the internet.

 

[Resolution]

And a Green Peacock skin shown in National Geographic a few months ago:

The Green Peafowl in National Geographic- I'm familiar with this skin- it's face has been painted and I'm not entirely certain what form it is. It may be one of the imperators.

Franky the photo of the male you thought might be a form of spicifer - I'm fairly certain it's the Kunming imperator (?). I heard that Dr. Akishino is collecting up all the forms of Green Peafowl. I'm not confident that the Kunming form is actually an imperator any longer. I think it may be its own unique evolutionary novelty. Now that I've learned a bit more about Yunnan- it biogeography and the actual terrain - It's not so simple as I once assumed.
Every population of peafowl coming from one of these amazing regions has been on its own for a very long while- possibly since the Pliocene.
Yunnan is possibly a centre of dispersal for all peafowl. I can't wait for more molecular work to be completed and on more populations from different regions of Yunnan. Just looking at their phenotype isn't all that useful as to determining what their real genetic makeup is but it is good to be able to differentiate each regional form from the next.

Kunming Peafowl

Regions of Yunnan

Peafowl of Yunnan:

1. Deqen region Pavo antiqus
2. Xishuangbanna Pavo annamensis xishuangbannaensis
3.Wenshan Pavo imperator imperator
4.Dali, Chuxiong,Kunming Pavo imperator yunnanensis
5.Dehong, Lincang -possibly a spicifer race that has historically intergraded with xishuangbannaensis​

 

[Resolution]

My comments are in bold within the quote from Franky.

Quote:
I've made some notes within the body of your quote in bold.

 

[FrankYLegend]

I thought it was spicifer because you said this bird (which I thought is the exact same bird) is spicifer:

What's the difference between integration and hybrid? I thought an integrade is a mix between two subspecies.