The road less traveled...back to good health! They have lice, mites, scale mites, worms, anemia, gl

Status
Not open for further replies.
I have a trough feeder, so it wouldn't work for me but probably would for those who use different style feeders. I could just hang a warming light over the feeder but I don't want to keep that power going all the time. When the coop is winterized, I think the feed will be the same temp as their water and shouldn't be too cold....just waiting on my hay bales to be delivered next week.
Just a thought. One of my friends used a row of xmas rope lights (bought on sale in January) to keep under her pots in her greenhouse in the winter months. easy under'floor' heating for the plants which may also work in some way for a trough of chickenfeed?? Just gave off a gentle steady warmth....
 
Bee,

You and I have PM'd a few times back and forth about my dog(s) and your wireless PetSafe system (which I think we're going to get by the way). Can you give me a few (more) ideas as to how to train my dog(s) to leave the chickens alone/guard them? My Lab killed one of my chickens a week ago - just whenI thought he was doing fairly well at leaving them alone, so I'm back to square one. Just a training hint or two?? Please?

Thanks,
Sheila

Labs are the Cadillac of dogs for training ease...they want so badly to please you that they will turn themselves inside out to make it happen. First, it is the most important thing that the dog sees you as his pack leader. I know the Cesar Milan thing sounds old and tired but before I ever had heard of him, I was making sure my dogs thought I made the sun come up each morning. Fortunately, Labs are easy to convince of this...they are so eager to please.

I would work on that until you have only to point to get the dog to go here, there, anywhere. We had Jake trained in that manner by the time he was 3 mo. old and at 6 yrs old I'm still trying out new training on him...and he is still receptive and quick to learn. So, you can teach an old dog new tricks!
big_smile.png


Labs are also very food motivated, this makes your job exponentially easier. Food + Praise= Trained dog. Labs just want a job to do and they will try to do anything for you, you just need to expect it from them. Get in the habit of giving them orders...it doesn't matter what it is, it's for conditioning them to do what you say, no matter what. Every time you get a chance, be training the dogs...you can do this while walking them, while doing chores outside, while sitting in the living room. Get them so tuned into your voice, your body language and your wants that they know without a doubt that you rule. All of this can be done in a matter of seconds each time and can be fun for you both. It can become a game and you always win.

Once you have them conditioned to what you want, get a chicken and call them to you. Let them sniff it while you pet it but if they show too much enthusiasm, nip it in the bud real quick and in a hurry. Tell them it is YOUR chicken...loudly and firmly. Even to this day, if I say "MY chicken" to Jake in that certain tone of voice, he will duck his head a little and turn his face away.

Then, tie the chicken's legs and leave it lying out in the yard and go in the house where you can observe them. Leave a window open so you can shout a command. The chicken will eventually flap around, squawking, and start flopping to get loose. This will attract the dogs....shout from the window "MY CHICKEN!" if they even turn towards or start towards the bird. If they stop or turn away, that's good. If they try it again, do the shout. Of course, your neighbors will be calling the mental hygiene commissioner to set you up for an evaluation, but no matter.

After a bit,they will look towards the house before they take a step in the yard...just waiting to see what to do. After that training session, if they did well, go get the chicken and untie her, hold her in your arms and pet her, call the dogs to you and pet them,but make sure you hold the chicken in a position that is higher than their heads.

If they do poorly with this training and shouting from the window does nothing, go out there, get the chicken, make the dog lie down and hold the chicken against his throat and repeat loudly, MY CHICKEN...give a little shake on the neck hide when you say it. This is about the most terrified you will ever see your dogs be...having a chicken holding them by the throat is horrifying to a dog, I'm sure. By Jake's expression, it was probably a part of his worst nightmares over all these years. Probably wasn't a good experience for the chicken either,but it was a nasty Wyandotte that needed the training as well.
big_smile.png


You know what? It worked and he is very loving towards his chickens and the chicks, licks on the chicks when he gets a chance. He's not frightened of chickens but he has a sense of protectiveness towards them. He even gets a little upset if I am working with them and make them squawk...I have to make him quit fussing and go lie down or he will dance and talk to me, all in a very concerned tone.

But..first and foremost, the dogs have to believe that you hold the keys to hell if they do something to those chickens when you are not around. This doesn't have to be accomplished with any hitting or yelling, just a tone and expression, body language and purpose. They have to know that everything you own is yours and they mustn't touch it, even when you are not around.

I hope that helps?
 
It sounds like you are between a rock and a hard place with the predators. I don't know your financial situation but I have gotten my money's worth and more from my wireless electric fence for my dogs. It costs me around $280(PetSafe brand from Petco) 7-8 years ago and it's still in top form and has kept my dogs confined to the property without fail. This means they guard where they are supposed to guard and don't get lured off into coyote range where they can get killed by an ambush.

It was also worth it to me to take the time to train my free dogs...yes, both were free dogs that were in bad situations when I found them. They worked hard every day and were the best companions and work partners ever. The older one was part GP and didn't need one ounce of training, came to me fully obedience trained and good with livestock. The younger came later as a 2 mo. old pup, a mixed Lab/BC cross, half starved and full of worms. By the age of 5 mo. he was guarding chickens full time with the older dog, killed his first coon by himself at 5 mo., killed a ground hog by himself a few weeks later and has never laid a tooth on a chicken. It took all of 20 min. to train him to chickens and he is still their best guardian/friend now at the age of 6 yrs.

We lived in coyote and bear country, now just live in coyote country, and could hear them hunting all around us but they never came in to the property...and still won't, even with my one, lonely dog(Lucy got too old and in pain from arthritis and had to be put down). He's smart enough to bark and threaten, but not chase after the 'yotes. It also helps that he has a boundary in which he must remain. I've never lost a chicken to a four legged predator and only one to a winged predator, a GHO that caught her sleeping in the barn loft, and a few chicks to a legless predator, a black snake.

The wounded chicken sounds like she is doing great. I'd just keep a check on the wound that it doesn't get a pocket of infection, but other than that, if she is healing and looking fine, I'd leave it be. Some of the best healed wounds are done so by sunshine, fresh air and time. If the other birds start to bother the wound I'd put some Blue Kote or NuStock on it and just watch over her to see if it works.
Most of us are seeing the flies go for this year but I wonder if Nu Stock would keep them off a wound?
 
Labs are the Cadillac of dogs for training ease...they want so badly to please you that they will turn themselves inside out to make it happen. First, it is the most important thing that the dog sees you as his pack leader. I know the Cesar Milan thing sounds old and tired but before I ever had heard of him, I was making sure my dogs thought I made the sun come up each morning. Fortunately, Labs are easy to convince of this...they are so eager to please.

I would work on that until you have only to point to get the dog to go here, there, anywhere. We had Jake trained in that manner by the time he was 3 mo. old and at 6 yrs old I'm still trying out new training on him...and he is still receptive and quick to learn. So, you can teach an old dog new tricks!
big_smile.png


Labs are also very food motivated, this makes your job exponentially easier. Food + Praise= Trained dog. Labs just want a job to do and they will try to do anything for you, you just need to expect it from them. Get in the habit of giving them orders...it doesn't matter what it is, it's for conditioning them to do what you say, no matter what. Every time you get a chance, be training the dogs...you can do this while walking them, while doing chores outside, while sitting in the living room. Get them so tuned into your voice, your body language and your wants that they know without a doubt that you rule. All of this can be done in a matter of seconds each time and can be fun for you both. It can become a game and you always win.

Once you have them conditioned to what you want, get a chicken and call them to you. Let them sniff it while you pet it but if they show too much enthusiasm, nip it in the bud real quick and in a hurry. Tell them it is YOUR chicken...loudly and firmly. Even to this day, if I say "MY chicken" to Jake in that certain tone of voice, he will duck his head a little and turn his face away.

Then, tie the chicken's legs and leave it lying out in the yard and go in the house where you can observe them. Leave a window open so you can shout a command. The chicken will eventually flap around, squawking, and start flopping to get loose. This will attract the dogs....shout from the window "MY CHICKEN!" if they even turn towards or start towards the bird. If they stop or turn away, that's good. If they try it again, do the shout. Of course, your neighbors will be calling the mental hygiene commissioner to set you up for an evaluation, but no matter.

After a bit,they will look towards the house before they take a step in the yard...just waiting to see what to do. After that training session, if they did well, go get the chicken and untie her, hold her in your arms and pet her, call the dogs to you and pet them,but make sure you hold the chicken in a position that is higher than their heads.

If they do poorly with this training and shouting from the window does nothing, go out there, get the chicken, make the dog lie down and hold the chicken against his throat and repeat loudly, MY CHICKEN...give a little shake on the neck hide when you say it. This is about the most terrified you will ever see your dogs be...having a chicken holding them by the throat is horrifying to a dog, I'm sure. By Jake's expression, it was probably a part of his worst nightmares over all these years. Probably wasn't a good experience for the chicken either,but it was a nasty Wyandotte that needed the training as well.
big_smile.png


You know what? It worked and he is very loving towards his chickens and the chicks, licks on the chicks when he gets a chance. He's not frightened of chickens but he has a sense of protectiveness towards them. He even gets a little upset if I am working with them and make them squawk...I have to make him quit fussing and go lie down or he will dance and talk to me, all in a very concerned tone.

But..first and foremost, the dogs have to believe that you hold the keys to hell if they do something to those chickens when you are not around. This doesn't have to be accomplished with any hitting or yelling, just a tone and expression, body language and purpose. They have to know that everything you own is yours and they mustn't touch it, even when you are not around.

I hope that helps?
What an awesome training method, now tell me how to train the geese to leave the dogs alone. I never leave my dogs out with out supervision because my 2 geese think everything belong to them, They don't attack me but they will go after the dogs. I step in between them when they start after them but if theres a better way? My mixed bird dog did grab my gander once when he came to the back door and tapped on it, she got him through the dog door, so they don't come in the back yard now, MY other 3 dogs are mini dachshunds
 
Last edited:
I'd change from doing a modified deep litter into doing a true deep litter and let those droppings fall and start developing a good deep litter system. This will help with worm ova that are shed and keep them from being recycled, as the beneficial bugs in the deep litter prey upon pests larvae.

I wouldn't use a commercial dewormer as all it does is let the strong worms survive. Those that survive the chemical will only reproduce to make more worms that are able to withstand the chemical. This requires that you keep switching your chemicals around and eventually you have naturally selected a super worm to live in your chickens that can survive any chemical preparation that you throw at it.

I'd use garlic, pumpkin seeds, soap...all things that worms do not build up a resistance or tolerance to. I'd start FF...it does indeed cultivate a bowel environment that is not conducive to worm growth and reproduction.

If the soils in your runs and pens are barren, I'd recondition those soils, even though you don't use them often, the chickens are still on them when they live.

I wouldn't add things slowly...I'd start the FF as soon as you can, the ACV in the water, I'd see about getting some pumpkin seeds in them...should be easy this time of year. If they don't want to eat them, dry them and grind them up and put it in the feed. Garlic is easy...garlic powder sprinkled on the feed.

If you use soap in the water for worms, I use Shaklee's soap...it's all natural and made of soy plant proteins and it only requires the tiniest drop, as it is concentrated to the max. If you think it isn't safe for animals, Joel Salatin uses it exclusively for all this animals, I've used it for mine a time or two when I got cows that needed reconditioning from an outside source...and I've even ingested it myself before I gave some to the animals. They used to use Shaklee's to fatten turkey and cattle over in Europe and using it as a soap was secondary.

My granny used to feed her pigs and chickens her dish water...which had lye soap in it. She said it made them healthier but I doubt she knew just why. The soap acts as a surfactant to internal parasites, dissolving the protective coating of oil on their skins and allowing the gastric juices to kill them. I can show you pics of a cow that had Shaklee's and ACV for reconditioning at my place that would blow your mind. You wouldn't believe it was the same cow and in such a short amount of time.

Let us know what you tried and the results?

Excellent! Thank you for the suggestions. I did give them a pumpkin the other day and they have been eating at it off and on. They seemed to love it, especially the seeds. I will definitely give them some garlic on their feed and get my hands on some Shaklee's soap. I really want to make them healthy and natural as possible. Superworms does NOT sound good to me and I would hate to have to keep plying them with chemicals to try to fight off whatever is surviving the meds.

I fed them some cottage cheese with the Flock Raiser stirred in it yesterday - you would have thought I was feeding them the best thing in the world. I can't even open the back door now without them rushing from wherever they are to see what "treat" I might be carrying. I feel so badly when I go out there without anything LOL!
 
Last edited:
What an awesome training method, now tell me how to train the geese to leave the dogs alone. I never leave my dogs out with out supervision because my 2 geese think everything belong to them, They don't attack me but they will go after the dogs. I step in between them when they start after them but if theres a better way? My mixed bird dog did grab my gander once when he came to the back door and tapped on it, she got him through the dog door, so they don't come in the back yard now, MY other 3 dogs are mini dachshunds

Geese can be trained just like I trained my rooster. Get a very flexible rod or switch that can reach from a distance, is limber and strong. When the geese go after the dog, get in between and use the rod in whatever way is deemed necessary....people use to herd geese with just such a rod. A touch here, a touch there and they could guide them to where they should go. The geese need to understand the hierarchy of the barnyard...you, the dogs, the geese, the rooster, the hens and so on and so forth. I let my dogs school the rooster when he tried to get their food...they were allowed to lunge and bark once to scare him off. This was all done under my supervision...soon the rooster learned to leave the dogs alone while they were eating. Mission accomplished.

I'd train these geese, even if I had to whack 'em once or twice. The dogs will see you standing up for them, as a pack leader should do, and they will gain more confidence from that. Pretty soon they will stand their ground when the goose attacks, as should you. Don't back up, don't let them advance..you do the advancing and coming towards them. They need to learn to yield the floor to you and the dogs.

Keep the dogs with you when you do this, even if you have to tie them to your waist. Advance towards the geese firmly and calmly, use the rod as an extension of your arm and when they turn and move away..which they will...touch them lightly on their backs to reinforce their behavior. In other words..keep movin' or else, you geese! They will learn. Any of them who do not learn, kill them. No one should have to put up with tyrants in their own back yard, be it towards your pack or towards you.
 
Labs are the Cadillac of dogs for training ease...they want so badly to please you that they will turn themselves inside out to make it happen. First, it is the most important thing that the dog sees you as his pack leader. I know the Cesar Milan thing sounds old and tired but before I ever had heard of him, I was making sure my dogs thought I made the sun come up each morning. Fortunately, Labs are easy to convince of this...they are so eager to please.

I would work on that until you have only to point to get the dog to go here, there, anywhere. We had Jake trained in that manner by the time he was 3 mo. old and at 6 yrs old I'm still trying out new training on him...and he is still receptive and quick to learn. So, you can teach an old dog new tricks!
big_smile.png


Labs are also very food motivated, this makes your job exponentially easier. Food + Praise= Trained dog. Labs just want a job to do and they will try to do anything for you, you just need to expect it from them. Get in the habit of giving them orders...it doesn't matter what it is, it's for conditioning them to do what you say, no matter what. Every time you get a chance, be training the dogs...you can do this while walking them, while doing chores outside, while sitting in the living room. Get them so tuned into your voice, your body language and your wants that they know without a doubt that you rule. All of this can be done in a matter of seconds each time and can be fun for you both. It can become a game and you always win.

Once you have them conditioned to what you want, get a chicken and call them to you. Let them sniff it while you pet it but if they show too much enthusiasm, nip it in the bud real quick and in a hurry. Tell them it is YOUR chicken...loudly and firmly. Even to this day, if I say "MY chicken" to Jake in that certain tone of voice, he will duck his head a little and turn his face away.

Then, tie the chicken's legs and leave it lying out in the yard and go in the house where you can observe them. Leave a window open so you can shout a command. The chicken will eventually flap around, squawking, and start flopping to get loose. This will attract the dogs....shout from the window "MY CHICKEN!" if they even turn towards or start towards the bird. If they stop or turn away, that's good. If they try it again, do the shout. Of course, your neighbors will be calling the mental hygiene commissioner to set you up for an evaluation, but no matter.

After a bit,they will look towards the house before they take a step in the yard...just waiting to see what to do. After that training session, if they did well, go get the chicken and untie her, hold her in your arms and pet her, call the dogs to you and pet them,but make sure you hold the chicken in a position that is higher than their heads.

If they do poorly with this training and shouting from the window does nothing, go out there, get the chicken, make the dog lie down and hold the chicken against his throat and repeat loudly, MY CHICKEN...give a little shake on the neck hide when you say it. This is about the most terrified you will ever see your dogs be...having a chicken holding them by the throat is horrifying to a dog, I'm sure. By Jake's expression, it was probably a part of his worst nightmares over all these years. Probably wasn't a good experience for the chicken either,but it was a nasty Wyandotte that needed the training as well.
big_smile.png


You know what? It worked and he is very loving towards his chickens and the chicks, licks on the chicks when he gets a chance. He's not frightened of chickens but he has a sense of protectiveness towards them. He even gets a little upset if I am working with them and make them squawk...I have to make him quit fussing and go lie down or he will dance and talk to me, all in a very concerned tone.

But..first and foremost, the dogs have to believe that you hold the keys to hell if they do something to those chickens when you are not around. This doesn't have to be accomplished with any hitting or yelling, just a tone and expression, body language and purpose. They have to know that everything you own is yours and they mustn't touch it, even when you are not around.

I hope that helps?

Thanks SO much. I printed out your suggestions and I will start them with Jack tomorrow! Wish us luck... I'll try this with our other dog Wyatt, too. He's a little more mellow around the chicken run, so I'm pretty sure he will come along too.
 
Post 1000!!!

Wow, this thread is really amazing. Loving all the information that is being shared - and learning so much about more natural methods!
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

New posts New threads Active threads

Back
Top Bottom