The road less traveled...back to good health! They have lice, mites, scale mites, worms, anemia, gl

[galanie]

Campho Phenique isn't the same as pine tar but probably has the same effect as pine tar. Flowers of Sulfur.. I haven't heard anyone mention that in YEARS. I was a horse shoer in my 20's (some 30+ years ago) and we used it for different things, often combined with bacon grease or something. Pine tar was an often touted cure-all but I never was sure about it's actual value once getting a can of pure pine tar for packing hooves along with the rope stuff ( I can't remember what it's called to save myself!) to use. For hooves, yes. For wounds.. uh. I'm not so sure.

 

[Attila the Hen]

Yes! That's it! That's why some can do just fine with Kefir but not milk (the sugar in milk) so I think you've got something there with the FF. Fermenting any food pre-digests a lot of the the sugars out but also provides the healthy flora to combat the overgrowth of the yeast. So two good things going on. Candida sufferers seem do better on fermented foods, too like kimchi and the like.

So gleet might be chicken candida. 'oh-oh Candida la-la-la-".....just found a new name for one of my chickens that has a bottom that looks like "Hen Cam's' photo of gleet.

The vets with all the medicines and antibiotics and the human docs, too, all promoted and pushed by the pharm drug industry and and FDA and if we're fortunate to have an insurance, it only covers that killer stuff. And trad. medicine docs don't usually know ding-all about nutrition. I'm a nurse, too. retired now. If I had it to do all over again I would go the naturopathic route with emphasis on diet and prevention. My med doctor knows next to nothing about Candida and doesn't bother finding out.

BK, what you're saying about soil balance and all makes so much sense for the chickens. I don't know. Maybe we need to eat some dirt, too. SBO's (soil based organisms in capsule form) have saved at least one human life that I know of when nothing else worked. (Maker's Diet...the book)

The Bedoiuin wanderers in the Middle East often live in environments that to us are filthy, but they would fight off some diseases where we wouldn't be able to...because maybe we're too clean??

Here I sit with a million things to do and yet more company coming. Better get my tush off the couch.
Ok. I've done my soapbox deed for the day.

I find this so fascinating about soil based organisms. I actually read an article in Newsweek (a fairly reliable source) about how depression is not as prevalent in other non western cultures. Specifically, in Africa there is an organism in the soil that is supposed to be responsible for the people there not suffering the rates of depression we do here. Of course there are many other factors involved, but we in the west are too clean for our own good---and apparantly depressed about it now.

 

[Beekissed]

Several pages back someone had suggested that I point out what is "normal" on a chicken so that they can tell when something is "abnormal". I'll try to go that as I go along this thread with various breed pics and comparing them to my birds in their present state.

The first is the Black Austrolorp~Normal:



You can see the depth of body and chest in this pic, the deep red comb and wattles and the gloss of the feathering. The legs should be slightly glossy and black/grey in color. The rear should have a deepness to it as well with good progression up to the tail. See how the breast is full all across the chest with no evidence of the crop showing or sticking out on one side or the other? A normal, healthy Aussie should be a heavy breed with good muscling on breast and thigh, though not as good as a White Rock or a meat breed. Pelvis should be wide and open...easy to place 2-3 fingers(girl fingers) between the pelvic bone on a mature, laying hen. The eye should be bright, beady and alert and movements should be quick and fluid, not slow or shuffling. In the sunlight, an Aussie should have a beautiful sheen to her feathers like a dragonfly...depending on the way she moves, she will either have green, blue, or purple coloring in her wings and along her back and neck.

My current BA...not from my original flock, undetermined age~not normal:




In this pic you can clearly see how underweight she is and also make out the definition of her full crop...shouldn't be able to see the crop so well. The scales are dull and inflamed looking at the toes, her comb and wattles are too pale and dry looking and her feathers have no real gloss or sheen, her legs and beak are pale. Her hindquarters appear pinched but it could be due to the loss of muscle mass...it will remain to be seen if this one will fill out and look like a true BA. She carries her tail well and has a good head. She laid here for the first time today....we'll see if we can get her back to the usual stellar laying that is characteristic of this wonderful breed.

Any other OTs want to point out the differences between a healthy bird and a poorly one on these pics? Anything I missed?

 

[Attila the Hen]

That was truly helpful seeing the comparison of a healthy bird vs one that is under par.
thank you. Would love to see more if at all possible.

 

[thedragonlady]

I find this so fascinating about soil based organisms. I actually read an article in Newsweek (a fairly reliable source) about how depression is not as prevalent in other non western cultures. Specifically, in Africa there is an organism in the soil that is supposed to be responsible for the people there not suffering the rates of depression we do here. Of course there are many other factors involved, but we in the west are too clean for our own good---and apparantly depressed about it now.

The very wise lady who raised me said that children should get dirty, but that there were 2 kinds of dirt. The bad stuff was over 12 hours old. I'd come in covered in mud with the 2 neighbor boys at about age 3 or 4, and all of us were immersed in a huge laundry sink, hosed off, and dressed in clean clothes. Dirty dirt is MORE than 12 hours old! Clean dirt is good for kids!

 

[thedragonlady]

Campho Phenique isn't the same as pine tar but probably has the same effect as pine tar. Flowers of Sulfur.. I haven't heard anyone mention that in YEARS. I was a horse shoer in my 20's (some 30+ years ago) and we used it for different things, often combined with bacon grease or something. Pine tar was an often touted cure-all but I never was sure about it's actual value once getting a can of pure pine tar for packing hooves along with the rope stuff ( I can't remember what it's called to save myself!) to use. For hooves, yes. For wounds.. uh. I'm not so sure.

Hey Galanie,
I'm old and a long time horselady. About 52 years to be exact.

 

[aussie pete]

just moved 18 chics to a tractor from a brooder ,put 3 icecream containers worth of river sand /dirt in tractor from their grit .little piggies cleaned up the lot in a day

.they know better than we do what they need, if u allow them access to it- IMO.

guess that's why home grow veggies taste better ,haven't been washed & processed to the point of being "Clean enough to eat"

the push to sell cleaning products to keep us healthy- is i think , what makes the prevalence of food allergies /general increase in different type's food intolerance , somewhat caused by being too clean .

i can see the difference in my own grandkid's between the one's allowed to play outdoors & get dirty v the one's not allowed to play in dirt ,touch animals etc

-
i apply that logic to my chickens - outside doing what they need to do, asap, after they get off heat & for the rest of their lives - if i have to work harder to protect them from predators ,well that's my job for the benefits they give me ,eggs ,meat, entertainment etc
off my soapbox now

 

[armorfirelady]

I have a newbie question. How can you tell an egg is fertilized when you crack it? I only have hens so no fertilized eggs here but I was just curious.

And I agree about the cleaning products. I am back to old fashion cleaning products like my grandparents used to make. Vinegar & water cleans wonderfully & no harmful residue left behind that my critters will pick up.

 

[Pullet Surprise]

Several pages back someone had suggested that I point out what is "normal" on a chicken so that they can tell when something is "abnormal". I'll try to go that as I go along this thread with various breed pics and comparing them to my birds in their present state.

The first is the Black Austrolorp~Normal:



You can see the depth of body and chest in this pic, the deep red comb and wattles and the gloss of the feathering. The legs should be slightly glossy and black/grey in color. The rear should have a deepness to it as well with good progression up to the tail. See how the breast is full all across the chest with no evidence of the crop showing or sticking out on one side or the other? A normal, healthy Aussie should be a heavy breed with good muscling on breast and thigh, though not as good as a White Rock or a meat breed. Pelvis should be wide and open...easy to place 2-3 fingers(girl fingers) between the pelvic bone on a mature, laying hen. The eye should be bright, beady and alert and movements should be quick and fluid, not slow or shuffling. In the sunlight, an Aussie should have a beautiful sheen to her feathers like a dragonfly...depending on the way she moves, she will either have green, blue, or purple coloring in her wings and along her back and neck.

My current BA...not from my original flock, undetermined age~not normal:




In this pic you can clearly see how underweight she is and also make out the definition of her full crop...shouldn't be able to see the crop so well. The scales are dull and inflamed looking at the toes, her comb and wattles are too pale and dry looking and her feathers have no real gloss or sheen, her legs and beak are pale. Her hindquarters appear pinched but it could be due to the loss of muscle mass...it will remain to be seen if this one will fill out and look like a true BA. She carries her tail well and has a good head. She laid here for the first time today....we'll see if we can get her back to the usual stellar laying that is characteristic of this wonderful breed.

Any other OTs want to point out the differences between a healthy bird and a poorly one on these pics? Anything I missed?

What does it indicate if the crop is like the one in the "not Normal "pic?

 

[Beekissed]

You got that right, Pete! It really isn't so much more work when you get a system down...then it kind of flows and is much easier than penned and locked down life. I never have to get up in the morning to let out chickens, nor do I have to try and lure them back to the coop each night when I want to lock them up....I leave my pop door open at all times and it makes my life so much easier.

I also usually feed once a day instead of worrying how much food is getting wasted in a continuous feeder system. I dish out what they eat right then and they are hungry enough to actually eat it...nothing is wasted and it's easier to scoop a few scoops into a trough than it is to fill one of those big feeders without spilling some out of the feeder tray.

Now, I've stolen a pic of one of Fred's beautiful White Rocks that he used to raise for my "normal and healthy pic" of a WR. I hope he doesn't mind but she's so darn perfect and beautiful that it was the perfect example:



You can see how smooth, soft and clean her feathering is and how cherry red her comb and wattles. The deepness in her chest and rear is evident in this pic as well. Now, mine usually have a little more golden coloring in the beak and legs but I think that is due to a different diet...mine are more dependent on free range than grain feeds than most birds and get most of their nutrition off the land. She has smooth, supple scales and clean,supple feet and a bright eye.

Here are a couple of pics of my most healthy WR and my least healthy WR...both in abnormal health at the moment:



She is about 3 lbs under her normal weight and is missing many tail feathers due to lice, mites and gleet. Her comb is not quite red enough and she has scale mites. You can see here the lack of muscle definition in her chest and thighs compared to the upper pic..this is probably due to lack of exercise and poor nutrition, anemia from parasites. When she is in full health, she looks much like the upper pic but just a little taller and longer of body. She still has good color to beak and legs but I don't know how...she is overrun with lice and has the worst gleet of all of them.




This one doesn't really even need words, does it? The picture says it all. Believe it or not, she looked more pale and had less feathering a week ago.