The road less traveled...back to good health! They have lice, mites, scale mites, worms, anemia, gl

[Beekissed]

Quick question re ACV. I have a bottle of Braggs that got put in the barn refrigerator for about 3 months when I was out of town. The mother is in pieces in the bottom. Will it still be good? I have a different brand that I bought to replace it and I just keep it in the pantry. I would like to add some of the Braggs mother to more ACV, but I am not sure it will still work. Thanks. This thread has taught me so much and I have become much more aware of my girls conditions. I have some work to do; I am starting fermented feed tomorrow and have cleaned out my husband's woodburner for wood ash. Bee, keep teaching us. Your experience and wisdom of natural ways is greatly appreciated.

All you can do is try it and see...

 

[aaggjg]

aaggjg - From what you describe it certainly seems like the fermented feed (FF) is the only thing that changed and now you have sour crop.  I have a hard time believing it's the FF, however, since most resources I can find say that ACV is one of the treatments. I read up on what causes sour crop, and it looks like impaction, moldy food, or a viral illness that somehow leads to incomplete emptying of the crop.  If the crop doesn't empty fully, the food rots in the crop (not ferments). 


So, did anything else change?  Too much bread?  Too long of pieces of grass/greenery that clogged up the crop?  Something moldy that they got into?  Is there perhaps a viral illness going through the henhouse causing the crop problems?  Are you feeding them right before bedtime (seems that if the crop isn't empty before bed can be more prone to sour crop, per some resources I read)?


Did you start your FF with ACV or did you just soak it in water and let whatever was on the grain ferment it?  It will work without ACV it seems, but maybe if you're concerned, start over with inoculating the mix with a bunch of mother.


Interested to hear how your flock continues to fare.

Thanks Eowyn2. I started my FF with ACV got a nice frothy foamy brown scum over night as its warm where I am. I keep straining and topping up the container with more water & ACV. I have had massive scum growth and was starting to wonder if it was all good scum... But the feed still smells sour not rotten .... So I figured it's fine. My chickens won't eat bread I've tried and they turn their beaks up at it .... They don't really get many human food scraps. I like to give them
Things they would find in wild like lettuce, vegetables, grains, fruit and of course yogurt
I haven't done anything else different except the FF.... I guess I'll dump this batch and start a new one just to be safe.... I really don't know what else it could be. I'm puzzled.
I love the idea of the FF so I'm going to try one more time.... Oh and I feed my chickens once a day in the morning and afternnon snacks when i'm home during the day, so their crops aren't full full in the evenings. I can't think of anything else different except cottage cheese a few times this week.... But they often get yogurt or buttermilk so I can't think that would adversely effect them. Hmmmmmm. Sitting here scratching my head

 

[aaggjg]

I'm wondering if they are not overfeeding on it and it continues to ferment while in the crop and the gases from that ferment may cause some of the distention and pressure?  A balloon of a crop....is that a full crop or is it as if it has air in it?  Are they acting sick from this or are their crops merely distended? 

Maybe this is something you need to introduce slowly or even mix with your dry feed until they get the hang of not eating too much?  Not sure at all....none of mine ever had this problem and few folks on the FF thread have reported this either.  I'd suggest traveling over to that thread and seeing if anyone else had similar outcomes to feeding the FF. 

Hey B thanks!! I missed this reply before I just posted .... Yes they are acting a bit off..... The first one was standing in one spot when they were free ranging and shaking her head back and forth. This is not usual behavior so I picked her up to take a look and found the swollen crop... Today Nugget didn't come out of the house at breakfast ... She is always last out as I figure she likes a few quiet moments alone without the rowdy teenagers when I finally went to look for her she was still on the roost (2 hrs later) and when I took her down she was fluffed up to about twice her size . She is a dainty eater by nature and she showed no interest at all in food .... Her crop was huge and she smelled a little like garlic. I have her some red wine and isolated her but she isn't her usually spunky chicken self. I did mix the FF with their regilar feed once I scooped it but as I do that the night before I'm guessing the new feed is fermented by morning :-o

I have 2 coops both get the same things.... The 2 cases of sour crop are in one coop. This coop eats all of their food everyday .... The other coop does not. It's a head scratcher....

I've made it half way through the FF thread.... Can't remember if I saw anything about sour crop yet .... All chicken threads are starting to blur together! I'll keep reading and see of I find anything!

Thanks for the thoughts on what might be causing this...,

 

[Beekissed]

Update on the Gnarly Bunch: No eggs today. Toby gaining ground every day and the girls are looking more sleek as well.

The hen treated for the nasty gleet the other night is showing signs of improvement...small signs but still improvement. Vent area is dryer and less odor already...a good sign!

I ordered pine tar today and will look for sulfur powder tomorrow, as well as some mineral oil. Gonna make my own NuStock!

I'll tell you something I found out about this NuStock....I've been battling fleas on the dog for the first time ever this year. My dogs have never really had enough fleas that a flea collar couldn't fix. This year we got a visit from a stray dog that played and wrestled with my dog before I could get my hands on him. When I did, I found the poor dog was just crawling with very large fleas and was miserable from digging at them. Maybe why someone dumped him off.

Well, I've tried everything I could think of in the natural side...garlic(yes, my dogs have eaten it for years and they didn't die) in the food, garlic dusting on the body. Cedar shavings in his bed. Lemon juice spray...nothing.

Then I went to flea powder. No results. Gave him a bath in Dawn with a little kerosene in the water...that worked for awhile but they came back. Finally went to the chemicals. Flea and tick spray did nothing. Even bought some Sevin dust...nothing. More garlic and I thought we had kicked them.

Then we had another wet week of weather and they are back with a vengeance. For the first time ever, my dog scratched himself until he was bleeding on his stomach and under one leg.

Everyone I spoke with who had used the expensive Frontline and Advantix and such said it did no good this year..the fleas were that bad, so I didn't want to spend all that money and still have no results.

When I saw Jake had dug a hole in himself and had hundreds of flea bites on his belly, I just rubbed some Nustock into the wounds and all over all the bites. I put NuStock on any place that had thin hair and even placed some at the base of his tail and behind his ears. Instant relief!

I haven't seen the dog itching since and that was 3 days ago.

I might be onto something here...so I looked up pine tar.

http://magnoliazz.hubpages.com/hub/All-Natural-Flea-And-Tick-Repellent

http://www.ehow.com/how_6758327_kill-fleas-pine_o_pine.html

Yep, gonna make some of my own...will be much cheaper that way.

 

[Missa Chickabee]

Update on the Gnarly Bunch: No eggs today. Toby gaining ground every day and the girls are looking more sleek as well.

The hen treated for the nasty gleet the other night is showing signs of improvement...small signs but still improvement. Vent area is dryer and less odor already...a good sign!

I ordered pine tar today and will look for sulfur powder tomorrow, as well as some mineral oil. Gonna make my own NuStock!

I'll tell you something I found out about this NuStock....I've been battling fleas on the dog for the first time ever this year. My dogs have never really had enough fleas that a flea collar couldn't fix. This year we got a visit from a stray dog that played and wrestled with my dog before I could get my hands on him. When I did, I found the poor dog was just crawling with very large fleas and was miserable from digging at them. Maybe why someone dumped him off.

Well, I've tried everything I could think of in the natural side...garlic(yes, my dogs have eaten it for years and they didn't die) in the food, garlic dusting on the body. Cedar shavings in his bed. Lemon juice spray...nothing.

Then I went to flea powder. No results. Gave him a bath in Dawn with a little kerosene in the water...that worked for awhile but they came back. Finally went to the chemicals. Flea and tick spray did nothing. Even bought some Sevin dust...nothing. More garlic and I thought we had kicked them.

Then we had another wet week of weather and they are back with a vengeance. For the first time ever, my dog scratched himself until he was bleeding on his stomach and under one leg.

Everyone I spoke with who had used the expensive Frontline and Advantix and such said it did no good this year..the fleas were that bad, so I didn't want to spend all that money and still have no results.

When I saw Jake had dug a hole in himself and had hundreds of flea bites on his belly, I just rubbed some Nustock into the wounds and all over all the bites. I put NuStock on any place that had thin hair and even placed some at the base of his tail and behind his ears. Instant relief!

I haven't seen the dog itching since and that was 3 days ago.

I might be onto something here...so I looked up pine tar.

http://magnoliazz.hubpages.com/hub/All-Natural-Flea-And-Tick-Repellent

http://www.ehow.com/how_6758327_kill-fleas-pine_o_pine.html

Yep, gonna make some of my own...will be much cheaper that way.

Do we have a recipe for proportions, BK?

 

[garden62]

Hi Bee, I got the Nu Stock for my roosters injured foot & also for my GSD who was given a gift of fleas from the barn kittens. Since he's a house dog it was a crisis situation! I gave them all a bath w/ tree tea oil shampoo, treated them all with Frontline - (didn't work), following month I treated kittens again w/Frontline & dog w/ Advantix - still itching & when I took the kittens into vet for neutering, she found fleas! Today I'm going to use shampoo I ordered from Nu Stock & the Nu Stock cream. I used the cream on the Roosters feet yesterday & DH said he saw 3 hens show interest in pecking his feet but all 3 changed their mind. I wish I would have taken a pic. I'll try to get one next time I catch him.

The ingredients on the Nu Stock container are sulfur, mineral oil & pine oil. Don't know if pine oil & pine tar are the same thing. I thought about trying to make it, but couldn't find the sulfur & wasn't sure exactly what kind of sulfur I needed. Also, I found it at Dr.s Foster & Smith for $8.99 per tube. They also had the shampoo.

Next ? - how much Mrs. Brags do you add to a gallon of ACV & how long does it take before it's ready to use?

 

[thedragonlady]

Hi Bee, I got the Nu Stock for my roosters injured foot & also for my GSD who was given a gift of fleas from the barn kittens. Since he's a house dog it was a crisis situation! I gave them all a bath w/ tree tea oil shampoo, treated them all with Frontline - (didn't work), following month I treated kittens again w/Frontline & dog w/ Advantix - still itching & when I took the kittens into vet for neutering, she found fleas! Today I'm going to use shampoo I ordered from Nu Stock & the Nu Stock cream. I used the cream on the Roosters feet yesterday & DH said he saw 3 hens show interest in pecking his feet but all 3 changed their mind. I wish I would have taken a pic. I'll try to get one next time I catch him.

The ingredients on the Nu Stock container are sulfur, mineral oil & pine oil. Don't know if pine oil & pine tar are the same thing. I thought about trying to make it, but couldn't find the sulfur & wasn't sure exactly what kind of sulfur I needed. Also, I found it at Dr.s Foster & Smith for $8.99 per tube. They also had the shampoo.

Next ? - how much Mrs. Brags do you add to a gallon of ACV & how long does it take before it's ready to use?

Pine tar and pine OIL are not the same thing. Pine tar is the thick sap. Try to mix that, and you will end up a gooey mess. Campho Phenique is pine with some Eucalyptus oil. Good stuff, and will mix with the mineral oil and the sulphur.

I've shown dogs for over 50 years. Every year fleas develop an immunity to some flea killer. Now we are using DOMINION 2, which was developed for termite control.It's available from eBay. It contains Fipronil which is the same thing as Advantage Plus. You MUST dilute this stuff by half with any cream rinse.The dosage then is 1 cc per 10 pounds of diluted Dominion 2, applied down the back. On long coated dogs I spread it around, and put some under the arm pits and crotch. Absolutely NO FLEAS for 2 years. One bottle of this stuff will last you FOR YEARS, if you just have a few dogs. The Hunt Kennel Huntsman is now using this on our hounds, and on his own dogs. It will end up costing you about 25 CENTS a month for flea control. Try getting a bottle, and dividing it with a friend.

Try looking for FLOWERS OF SULPHUR at a drug store, or on the internet to replicate the Nu-Stock.

 

[aussie pete]

fyi - found a recipe for nustock -73% sulphur ,2% pineoil, 25%mineral oil- haven't been able to find it in aust

 

[galanie]

Is that a percentile by weight or by measure?

 

[Beekissed]

fyi - found a recipe for nustock -73% sulphur ,2% pineoil, 25%mineral oil- haven't been able to find it in aust

Hi Bee, I got the Nu Stock for my roosters injured foot & also for my GSD who was given a gift of fleas from the barn kittens. Since he's a house dog it was a crisis situation! I gave them all a bath w/ tree tea oil shampoo, treated them all with Frontline - (didn't work), following month I treated kittens again w/Frontline & dog w/ Advantix - still itching & when I took the kittens into vet for neutering, she found fleas! Today I'm going to use shampoo I ordered from Nu Stock & the Nu Stock cream. I used the cream on the Roosters feet yesterday & DH said he saw 3 hens show interest in pecking his feet but all 3 changed their mind. I wish I would have taken a pic. I'll try to get one next time I catch him.

The ingredients on the Nu Stock container are sulfur, mineral oil & pine oil. Don't know if pine oil & pine tar are the same thing. I thought about trying to make it, but couldn't find the sulfur & wasn't sure exactly what kind of sulfur I needed. Also, I found it at Dr.s Foster & Smith for $8.99 per tube. They also had the shampoo.

Next ? - how much Mrs. Brags do you add to a gallon of ACV & how long does it take before it's ready to use?

It doesn't matter...I just added to mine about 1/3 of the total amount to speed things along but I bet a cup would do the same job. I didn't keep track of the progress, just set it~open to air~ in a dark place and checked in about a week....good mother formed and floating mid-jug at that time.

Do we have a recipe for proportions, BK?

Thanks to Aussie Pete, I do now!

Thanks, Pete!!!

I ordered the liquid pine tar to see if I can get by with adding just a dab due to it being concentrated. The pine tar is what is in all the old timey hood treatments. If it doesn't work or isn't the right component, I'll try doing it with pine oil instead. The sulfur powder is something you could probably find at your feed store...they had it at my feed store back home. I'm going to check out TSC and my feed mill/store today and see if they have it.