The road less traveled...back to good health! They have lice, mites, scale mites, worms, anemia, gl

[thedragonlady]

Thank you to all you folks who offer support and good wishes! You could really, really, really be raking me through the coals right now and I wouldn't blame you one bit. How could I have let this thing happen? If I had known they would have gotten this kind of care, I would truly have just killed them myself and ate them. I didn't listen to my gut and my mind was on other things. No excuse, really.

But...now's the time to try and fix things. Anyone else out there trying to fix where management went awry?

Bee,
We've all done it at sometime or other if we've been keeping chickens long enough. I bought 2 Silkies back at $100 each years ago as I couldn't stand the shape they were in. Both had been top winners. When I got them back, one was blind. Both were thin, buggy, anf filthy. It took a while, but both died of old age about 3 years later. I felt that I OWED those birds, and they were my friends.

 

[loanwizard]

I was going to use some of my acerbic wit, especially when you said impugned, and tell you to cull them, but then read the story. Found out that you are not that altogether different from some of us. Now you have some understanding of why I have tried to bottle feed baby bunnies to no avail I might add.

I have no doubt, that your hands, skills, and God's sunshine, will have these birds, if not too far gone, back to health in less time than you think, I am guessing 90 days not including feather loss.

Good luck in your journey down this road.

Shawn

 

[mendocinosunris]

Thanks for the learning opportunity, bee.
I am sorry for your birds, but at least now they are in much, much better hands.


I'm looking forward to learning lots of new things!

 

[hennyannie]

Sorry to hear that these people didn't hold up their end of the deal.Looking forward to seeing the results of your hard work. Around my area there are alot of folks who get into livestock way over their heads, and the result is animals in bad condition. I am asked constantly to take in animals after they avoid the hardwork and let them get this way. I like that you are trying to use natural remedies that dont cost alot, that is the big reason I cant take in every animal I am asked to. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Beekissed]

I have subscribed. It will be interesting to see the results of the experiment. I would like to hope-scratch that- I have confidence that- with proper nutrition and quality of life improvements, the birds will turn around. I think some of the problem that some people have with "natural" treatments is that they aren't applied correctly or in sufficient quantities, etc. like vinegar and pumpkins. There was a backyard poultry mag issue that dealt with the natural dewormers. But as I said, I don't know if the methods have been studied well enough yet. It will be curious to see how the birds' bodies deal with worms in your care, this is what I am watching more closely than anything else.
Wood ashes are great, so useful for so many things, and not utilized much today. You might even want to put some in long shallow bins (like for wrapping paper storage) in the coop/run for dust bathing while they are still locked up. Even the opportunity for natural behaviors ( even if they don't use it) is good right now, I think.
So what are your thoughts for things like cocci overload? Proper manure management+ healthy gut flora and general improved nutrition to get the balance back over time? Are you not worryng about cocci? Are you going to use vitamin supplements to get them over the hump or not? What order are you treating things, and why? The external parasites are really something, and tax the body more than some people realize. I think you'll see a big improvement once those are cleared up.
Do you have any of the partridge rocks left? I have a soft spot in my heart for them for some reason.
Regarding nustock- I have a tube that has separated, is there a fix for that, or do i need a new tube? Lol.
Good luck! I think you have the ingenuity, patience, and empathy to get the job done. If some of the birds don't make it, at least the end will be better for them than the alternative.

Lot's of questions!!!!

Somehow, I knew this thread would be like that. If there has been one question that has no simple answer that keeps popping up on this forum, it is the question of how to correct the health of a bird that has fallen prey to parasites, internal and external, and ill health, and how to prevent it from happening again.

There is no easy answer and fix to correcting the health of a chicken, but the prevention of it all is fairly a simple, no cost fix....I think some find that this sounds too easy. Fresh air? Sunlight? Good nutrition not found in a bag??? Doesn't it have to involve man made science in some way for it to be effective?

Nomibear~ I divided my flock between the two people who asked for them and had always admired my flocks over the years. They both had farms and the capabilities to give them a good, free ranged existence with excellent foraging opportunities and they both had LGDs to protect them from predators. Both had been interested in my methods and wanted to try them on their livestock. Everyone else who had wanted my flock had wanted to confine them to a run and coop situation and had already had predation at their place...and no protection but wire for this.

The girls that made it through this are the ones that still run the mountain on the good farm...ten hens strong and producing. The others in the mismanaged flock have only 11 of my original flock out of 18. Remaining are: 1 Black Aussie(7 yrs old), 3 White Rocks(6 yrs. old) 1 New Hampshire(6 yrs.) 2 Barred Rocks (3 yrs.) 1 Speckled Sussex (3 yrs.) 1 Partridge Rock (3 yrs) 1 Partridge Rock rooster (6 yrs. old). Tagging along in this rescue was a Black Star and a mutt of some kind, no known age...not from my flocks.

Off-grid Hen~ I'll try to answer your questions one at a time as I am sure there are many who have this thought and wonder about it. Great questions!

1. What are your thoughts on cocci overload? You answered that one in your next question! Creating balance in the chicken and in the coop and surrounding soils is the first step. Doing one without the other is kind of useless as they will just get imbalanced again. Providing healthy gut flora will eventually inhibit the overgrowth of things like cocci, e.coli, salmonella, etc.

Here is a link that I think everyone should read ....a little research into the wonderful properties of mother vinegar and why it's good for the bowels:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...osis-and-other-poultry-diseases-in-chicks-acv An excerpt from that link, describing just one of the beneficial yeast cultures found in mother vinegar...there are many more.

, Salmonella, Clostridium difficile and Escherichia coli among small animals.

Pediococcus acidilactici has not been stated in any literature to have toxic effects. Another potential benefit of using them as Probiotics is their use as alternative medicines against infectious parasitic pathogens like Eimeria* in broiler-chicken [6].


Quote:

And another along those lines:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/644300/fermenting-feed-for-meat-birds

And one post in particular about fermented feed that may apply to this discussion:


Quote:
2. Are you not worrying about cocci? I'm not worried about them having it. All birds have it in their bowels....it's when it becomes an overgrowth of cocci that we start seeing the side effects in the chicken. Correcting the bowel flora's balance and immune system health will also start decreasing the ill effects of the overgrowth of harmful pathogens.

3. Are you going to use vitamin supplements to get them over the hump? The ACV has good vitamin content, as does the layer mash, but the most beneficial will come from their foraging of plant matter and the natural nutrients found in their normal consumption of bugs, grubs, worms, etc. Even the soils they ingest out on healthy range will provide the vitamins they need. These are more naturally absorbed and utilized than anything I ever could provide.

4. What order are you treating things and why? I treated the scale mites, skin mites and lice first because I had my hands on them as I transferred them from the transport cage. Seemed like a natural progression and also treated them before they entered the new coop environment. This coop has no good environment for mites or lice...it's made from cattle panels and has very little wood surface that isn't treated lumber. I used fine wood ashes....they smother the lice and mites on the skin and in the feathers and the alkaline nature of wood ash can kill them as well.

Their later dusting and solarizing of their skin and feathers will further that endeavor...they were stretched out and sunning this morning~first time in a year and a half to see the sun. The NuStock is a one time treatment that takes care of business when it comes to scale mites. The scales later fall off and grow shiny new once again, and the residue of the NS on the roosts inhibits any further infestation.

Then I provided water with mother vinegar, for the reasons outlined above. I also fed them cottage cheese...good cultures there as well. I am starting their layer mash to fermenting today and those good probiotics being generated and present in their feed each day will start to reculture their bowels.


Excellent questions and just the kind needed to make this thread something that others can use. I hope to get pics of the individual birds today but it could be a little difficult as they are so very wary right now.

Please ask more questions and we'll see if we all can't take this journey together if there are some of you out there with similar problems in your flocks.

 

[Beekissed]

Bee,
We've all done it at sometime or other if we've been keeping chickens long enough. I bought 2 Silkies back at $100 each years ago as I couldn't stand the shape they were in. Both had been top winners. When I got them back, one was blind. Both were thin, buggy, anf filthy. It took a while, but both died of old age about 3 years later. I felt that I OWED those birds, and they were my friends.

Yeah, that's where I am too....I owe it to these old birds to at least try. It was my fault they are like this. I think it's a testament to their hardiness that they are still alive at all...that is something that needs awarded!

Today's regimen started out as planned but took a sudden turn.....

Fed them cooked pumpkin with cottage cheese topper and sprinkled a little pepper flakes on top. All good food. They slowly started to eat it and finally consumed it but still slow. They all move like they are in a dream....slow motion. The worst hen stands in the corner and just purls...real low, like a whine. She didn't even approach the food until all the others had eaten some. She has one tail feather and the rest of her feathers look l like she was caught in a wood chipper.

As I sat and watched these invalids stand or hunch around, walking like their feet hurt, I started to think of comfort. I got out my old meat bird roost...sort of like a hammock that sits about 2 ft. off the ground. I placed it in the coop and put fresh hay all across the hammock and also placed a hay bale next to it. The birds immediately got up on this and either settled down or started to groom. They jumped feebly from this roost into the nest boxes and shuffled around. The rooster got in the nest and tried to call in some hens. The rooster is so weak that he didn't even crow this morning...he can't even stand erect like a rooster normally would and like he always did in his finer days. He was regal and showy...now he looks like the loser in a fight with a lawn mower.

I think that is one thing that is the most telling. These birds are silent as ghosts. No normal chicken sounds from the hens and only a little sound from the rooster as he tries to tempt the hens to eat or to nest. It's pitiful, really. Sort of like watching POWs with Stockholm Syndrome.

Then I started thinking about that....and I opened the door and left it open. If they are going to die, by golly, they are going to die FREE! I don't care if they are too weak to avoid predators, these birds are going out of that coop and into the sunshine, fresh grass and fresh air. Not one bird dashed for the door, as per usual for this flock after having been confined for any reason...they just stood there, dully staring into space. I just left them and went back to the house. As I passed the dog I instructed him to "watch chickens!"...he seemed glad to do it. He's been too long without a job!

I went up later and they were lying in the sun beside the coop, blinking and drowsy. When I approached they got up and moved away...these birds and I used to stretch out in the sun together, soaking it up like solar panels! Folks used to drive by the house and stare at this grown woman and all her chickens, lying as if slain in the sun.

As they moved away they encountered the edge of the woods...and something clicked. They started to scratch, peck and, low but distinctly, I could hear that crooning sound that hens make when they are foraging......

Even the poorest, most nakedly weak hen came out of the coop and started to slowly forage in the leaves and underbrush. They were eating clover and the soil, equally. They were taking their first steps back to good health where it's the most easily found....on healthy pasture/woodland.

I put some green tomatoes in the coop and came down here to type. When I checked later, they were all resting in their hammock and the tomatoes were picked clean.

And so it begins.......

 

[galefrances]

My goodness Bee. This thread is like one of those top ten best sellers you pick up to read one day and can't put down until you've reached the last page. Hanging on every word, the suspense gradually reaching full pitch. Every emotion bouncing through your head keeping your stomach in a knot. I'm anxiously awaiting chapter two.....

 

[BusyBlonde]

Bee, your writing is like poetry. Your description of those poor chickens - I can see them in my mind, and I feel so badly for how they've been treated. I wanted to cheer when you said you'd let them out, and they were finally getting to do what chickens should be able to do - spend time in the sunshine and fresh air.

If anyone can bring these chickens back, it's you. And I will be here, watching it all unfold.

 

[Beekissed]

Aw, shucks, y'all...yer makin' me blush! I guess if anyone could wax poetic about chickens, it would be me.....

I want to thank everyone for all the kind words and words of encouragement...they mean so much. I'm not normally this soft and mushy, as you all probably know. There's just something about these birds that formed a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. If I hadn't known them before, it probably wouldn't affect me so much, I guess.

These chickens have been a part of my life for a few good years, some of the best times of my life were spent in that place and these birds were part of the fabric of that backdrop. They were glossy, bright and proud once and they had a quiet dignity about them that I admire...don't know when I've ever had a flock that I liked so much over the years. Seeing their current ugliness and their slow weak steps is like a curse and a blight....I guess something like that makes a person want to make things right again. Nothing that pretty and useful should ever be treated so badly, should it?

 

[bruceh]

no be they should have never been treated like that. with that said, the birds are free ranging and scratching. that is huge step. they have the desire to make it. the imprint will come back. as the days go on, more and more will come back to them. happy chickens is 1/2 the battle. the rest will take time. as we know nothing is cured overnight.

IM PULLING FOR YOU AND THEM CHICKENS