These don't look like pencilled palms to me?

[Lagerdogger]

This spring, I ordered some pencilled palm eggs from a BYC member. Several hatched, three survived. Of these three, one looks like a very dark pencilled palm. The one in the middles with the mostly white tail.




However, the other two look like this....(also in the center back of the first picture)




The supplier insists that she only had pencilled palm, and suggested that the darker ones were pencilled red palms. To be fair, she had not yet seen the pictures.

Clearly, these are not pencilled palms of any kind. They are black-winged, and appear to carry a red gene. They do not seem to have a Narragansett gene based on their secondaries. If they have been bred with palms, they are likely carrying a recessive gray gene. If that is the case they would be pencilled red phoenix. And, as young birds, they resemble red phoenix pictures from Porter's website. Can anyone verify that these are 4 month red phoenixes, or are there other ideas out there?

I am hoping that the egg seller will post or PM me some pictures of her breeding stock, which woud help immensely.

I am going to breed one of the dark hens to a red bronze with single recessive gray and narragansett genes, and one to a Calico tom with two gray and two narragansett genes. Differences in the offspring of the two crosses will help determine what genes these hens are carrying. I am also goinng to breed the pencilled palm hen to the red bronze to see if I can reproduce this color that way.

 

[Sphynxii]

the lightest one looks like my bronze.

 

[zekii]

http://www.porterturkeys.com/pencilledpalm.htm

Have you checked out Porter's site....he lists penciled palms & penciled red palms there...
according penciled palms can produce penciled red palms

 

[Lagerdogger]

http://www.porterturkeys.com/pencilledpalm.htm

Have you checked out Porter's site....he lists penciled palms & penciled red palms there...
according penciled palms can produce penciled red palms

Yes, but the pencilled red palm still has the general palm pattern, with the white tail and darker tail band, and light or white wing coverts. The questionable birds have richly colored golden-brown tails and wing coverts. Clearly they are not red palms.

After looking at them again today, I've decided that I can't tell if they have a Narri gene or not. The proposed breeding plan will weed this out if I hatch enough birds.

 

[zekii]

I see the Narra coloration in your pictures, so you may have the ng gene mixed in there
somewhere.