Third sick chicken

Cassie Shattuck

In the Brooder
Aug 21, 2017
8
4
19
Back story
We have had chickens for a while, long story short, we have about 25, mixed breeds and ages. We had a roo about three months old die after having trouble walking, no injury, just sort of stumbled around, almost looked drunk. I brought him in the house and within 24 hrs he was gone. Then we had a sizzle hen, about three months old, get sick about a week later, she was stumbling around and acting off. I brought her in and made sure she was eating and drinking. She seemed better the next day, was up walking around a little and standing ok. Then she started shaking her head. And eventually was throwing her head back in a sort of spasm and died in my hands. She was my favorite so it was a hard loss.

I worm with DE and cucumber and pumpkin seeds. I try to keep the coop clean and have fresh food available 24hrs. Water is available during the day, it's not inside the coop. They are in a large run that includes apple trees and several other trees, oak I think; it is also where our dogs go when let out. They free range our 2 acres once in a while, maybe twice a week. I put apple cider vinegar in their water every couple weeks as good measure. They get kitchen scraps and live near but not with our quail.

Now
One of my daughter's chickens was fine when I locked them up at night, then in the morning stumbled out of the coop, and laid on the ground so I separated her from the flock and looked her over, she's about four months old, not yet laying but I checked for bound egg and didn't feel anything. Her comb is almost purple (the other two had naturally dark combs). Shes been eating flock raiser and I added some plain yogurt to it for her. And gave her some apple cider vinegar water. She isn't eating or drinking much. For the first two days I kept waiting to find her dead but she's made it 4 days, longer than either of the others, but now her tail is drooping, she has green diarrhea and isn't eating much. As well as slightly shaking her head. I've looked for lice and mites and found nothing, no blood in stool, she's lost a lot of weight, although none of my bird are fat to begin with. She's lost some feathers but has no bald spots.

I've called six vets in our area, most won't see chickens but the two that do aren't accepting new clients. One gave us a referral to a college that'll do an autopsy for $180 but that's out of our price range and I'd really like to save her.
 
I'm not sure, about half are from a hatchery so I assume they are but the rest are from back yard breeders so I don't think they are. I will look into testing for Marek's.
 
Hi, welcome to BYC! :frow

Sounds a lot like Merek's. Silkie type breeds are said to be particularly susceptible' :( Testing was $20 + shipping at my state poultry vet at UC Davis, Ca. That's actually the cost of necropsy. My vet was gonna charge the same as what you say + still send it to the state vet. So the fees would be their cost of shipping and preparation and repeating the state vets' report to me. State vet said as far as they are concerned Merek's is in all of North America even if your flock doesn't show signs. Don't assume hatcheries vaccinate. Many do not and those that do often charge an extra fee. Most breeders do not vaccinate and if they did it's only effective IF done correctly. Plus vaccination does NOT mean a bird won't succumb, it means they should have more immunity on board from their system building antibodies against the dead virus that was injected. They cannot test live birds. One other thing is that birds may not show all symptoms, which makes it more difficult to diagnose or believe it could happen to you. Hopefully helpful links, I don't know your location...
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-to-send-a-bird-for-a-necropsy-pictures.799747/

Also.. your worming method its HIGHLY ineffective. If you read down on Wiki page it will show actual result from tested farmers using DE with NO improvement in worm #'s, instead of JUST hear say. As well it states that DE becomes ineffective once it gets wet even from morning dew. So I don't know how it would stay dry all the way into the digestive tract to work as a wormer? Also note that many chicken feeds use DE as an agent to keep the feed from caking and is aproved at a rate of up to 2%. The Purina flock raiser I use has it. IF it worked as a wormer, the feed companies would be touting it from roof tops as a sales pitch. One final.. okay 2 final points. DE is strip mined which goes against the reason many of keep our own birds which is because we are more earth conscious. And since diatoms form basically a soft, porous rock it is easily ground down by the other rock in the gizzard before it gets to the digestive tract where the worms and eggs are found. :confused:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth

If cucumbers worked as a wormer, Not many of us would need to worm because they grow in our gardens. If you wanna know the truth, spend the $ for a fecal float before and after using that method. It's $15 at my vet and they don't have to see birds. As far as I know, only round worms and tape worm can actually be seen in droppings. The others, they are looking for the eggs under a microscope. I wish I could find the thread I saw regarding someone who treated with pumpkin seed and their end reality. I will try. As much as like the idea of keeping it natural... that's ONLY if it works and isn't just an old wives tale.

Please don't take the info I shared as unfriendly, it isn't meant that way at all. We all do our best until we learn something different. :hugs Also, I would NEVER worm an already sick bird unless it was confirmed that was the issue.. because it can be hard on their bodies and make them worse. Just as an FYI.

The green diarrhea is from not eating probably. Hydration is key. I suggest a simple electrolyte recipe if you don't have any packets on hand...

2 cups warm water, 2 tablespoons brown sugar, 1/2 teaspoon each salt and baking soda. Stir and serve full strength. (white is OK but brown has more micro-nutrients). If you have it, a couple drops of Poly Vi Sol baby vitamins with NO iron. Or any other bird vitamins or poultry Nutri Drench.

If she quits drinking, you can use your finger and let drips below the nostrils and when it rolls around to the beak she should gobble it. Also, I would offer scrambled or boiled smashed egg. You mention bald spots and feathers are 90% protein.

Seems like crop blockage might be a possibility more than egg binding on that age bird and with the symptoms you describe.

Gape worm can cause head shaking. As well, that's how they get things out of their throats since they don't have a gag reflex.

One last point.. some mites are microscopic and no matter how hard you look you will not see them. Red mites actually don't live on the bird but in cracks of wood and only come out to feed on the birds at night. So the ones you can see might be extra hard to see during the daytime as well. I suggest going in a couple hours after dark with a flashlight, keeping it dim take each bird off roost and hold them on their back with their feet bent towards the chest. Using your fingers part feathers near the vent and on the abdomen and look for thing crawling away from your light.

Is you acv raw, unfiltered with Mother? And worth mentioning though doubtful is possible vitamin E deficiency.

This must be very difficult for you. Hoping the best for you and your daughter plus all your chickens. :fl
 
This one is a light brahma, not silkie.

What should I be using for worker then bc the workers I've read about online are all specifically for different types of worms. Is there anything I can give for a general deworming?

The $180 fee is for the college, not the vet.

I looked for gape worm but didn't see anything, but I have a very untrained eye. Can I treat for gape worm without compromising her health even more if that's not what she has?

Is there a way to treat for mites? Even if I can't find them can I treat for them as a safety measure?
 
I wouldn't use a wormer without having the fecal float done. And then I would choose the right one for the species identified IF treatment is even needed. You are right about them being for different types of worms. They will give you a species count. If the count is high treatment will be in order according to which species is identified. That's why I recommend testing, hate to treat for worms I don't have and maybe not the ones I do.

No, I wouldn't treat for gape worm without confirmation. It isn't all that common. Even though your eye is untrained, you would probably notice something off. And I also don't know what that treatment would be.

Permethrin spray is very safe, effective and affordable against many parasite including most mites and lice... except scaly leg mites and depluming mites, which have to be treated with Ivermectin wormer because they are systemic feeding off blood. Also permethrin does not require any egg withdrawal if used as directed. Scaly leg mites can also be treated with vaseline, but that isn't your current issue.. just couldn't let half truths slip by (saying only treat with Ivomec).

Personally, people over treat their birds when they aren't sure what's wrong. And sometimes the things they do may mask the symptoms of the actual issue. Beyond electrolytes and probiotics, I like to keep it simple. But every one on here may have different experiences. And you must do what seems right for you. If it doesn't work out, try to learn from the experience all that you can so you are better prepared if there is a next time.

Hope she feels better.
 
Here's simple .....I dont do anything for my Birds as far as ACV, probiotics, vitamins.....Blah , blah, blah.....I have an extremely healthy flock....I feed them appropriate feed, free range and cut out scraps/Snacks to once a week....Too much hype about treats and then Birds suffer....Never forget that Chickens are livestock way before they became pets......
 

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