Thomas Jefferson - A man for all ages!

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Not only did Jefferson own slaves, he failed to free them upon his death. There is also very good evidence that he fathered slave children.

He was also one of the greatest minds ever, and shaped our nation in many, many ways. I think that one of the things the Texas Board of Education likes is uncomplicated heros. Jefferson was anything but uncomplicated; he was amazingly complex, and amazingly talented, and had flaws. Unfortunately, there are few truly great people who are flawless, and uncomplicated.
 
When the founding fathers were alive, American politics was not a job with money, fame, and power (or the appearance of such). They got involved because they believed in making a real difference, not because they thought they'd get anything out of it.

I doubt any politician we have would work as hard as our founding fathers did, and for free, too (there was no stipend given for the authoring of the Declaration of Independence, for example).
 
I doubt the Bill of Rights would get passed today. Most people would regard those rights as allowing far too much freedom.
 
This is indeed a fantastic & timely thread. What a pity that "big government" believes it can care for our health better than we as individuals can. I am thankful that I live in Idaho, where our Governor has issued a new law against such tyranny. Idaho became the second state to enact a new law aimed at nullifying the federal government’s unconstitutional healthcare “reform” in what analysts are calling a significant victory for state sovereignty.
Hopefully other states will follow suit.

I most strongly believe that the proper role of government is to protect equal RIGHTS, not to provide equal THINGS.
Also, strong local self government is the keystone to preserving human freedom.

Amendment X
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
~The Constitution of the United States~

"If, to please the people, we offer what we ourselves dissaprove, how can we afterwords defend our work? Let us raise a standard to which the wise & honest can repair."
~George Washington~

"Of all the dispositions & habits which lead to political prosperity, religion & morality are indispensible supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men & citizens... Let it simply be asked, where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintianed without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education...reason & experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
~George Washington~

"To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people is a chimerical idea."
~James Madison~

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom."
~Benjamin Franklin~

And one more thought:

"The sum of all is, if we would most truly enjoy the gift of Heaven, let us become a virtuous people; then shall we both deserve & enjoy it. While, on the other hand, if we are universally vicious & debauched in our manners, though the form of our Constitution carries the face of the most exalted freedom, we shall in reality be the most abject slaves."
~Samuel Adams~

~Red
 
Gosh I wish all of you were on my FB last night...... man did I catch heck for making one little comment about what a bunch of idiots we have in Washington!!!
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The health care debate is a WHOLE 'nother subject!

I don't know the WHOLE healthcare debate issues and it sounds like most people don't. But allowing insurance companies NOT to accept you based on health issues, dropping you because you're sick, or telling a doctor NO to a needed procedure is WRONG. What's worse is plans have exclusions for what disease they won't cover, well how in the heck are you supposed to know what you are going to get later down the line?
 
I doubt the Bill of Rights would get passed today. Most people would regard those rights as allowing far too much freedom.

Sad but true!

"Our founding fathers embarked on a great experiment when they created the United States of America. What if the individual citizens held all the power? What if government were required to be responsive and accountable to its citizens? What if individual rights trumped the interests of the state? What if individuals were free to pursue happiness by their own definition. Of course, with individual freedom comes individual responsibility. Hence we started making exceptions. "
http://captaincapitalist.blogspot.com/2010/03/how-exceptionalism-killed-american.html​
 
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No kidding! I respect that some people disapprove of the bill, but many people like myself am not entirely against some reform. I think it's awful that people have to choose between spending every penny they have to fight an ilness because they either have no health insurance or have been dropped. It's a major cause of bankruptcy and homelessness. I'd like to see a future where a person's entire finacial life isn't destroyed over some unforseen ilness, or drop in coverage.

That said, you must think of Jefferson as a man of his times. Not excusing it, of course, but he lived in a different time. The founding fathers did not have slaves in mind when they talked about the rights of citizens. They had free (not indentured) white men in mind. They were not waiting for the "right time" to get rid of slavery. While they may or may not have been conflicted, thier economy, individual wealth and the wealth of the US was built on the backs of slavery, indentured or otherwise. They were concerned with protecting thier rights, and thats how they went about making laws, the constitution, etc.
 
Babylady, friend me on FB and we'll tag team!

There is absolutely a need for reforms in the healthcare industry. But it is not this bill. I despise when the media calls folks who disagree, "anti-healthcare-reform". That is not true at all. Our elected officials just passed an unconstitutional bill; you bet your boots I'm gonna be mad as a hornet.

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.
You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
-Adrian Rogers
 
There is absolutely a need for reforms in the healthcare industry. But it is not this bill

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