Thoughts on this yearling?

[Wolf-Kim]

Something really seems "off" about his feet, the angle above the front hooves seems really extreme and seem like they would be a major weak point. He seems splay footed/cow hocked in the back. Can't tell for sure without proper conformation pictures about the cow-hocks, but it seems that in every picture his hind hooves are pointed outward instead of forward.

I also see an uneven built horse, I think he's beautiful in the shoulder, head, and neck; but, his hind end seems small and his legs(especially) the front spell trouble. I predict this animal to have major leg problems in the future.

Sorry, but if I was the buyer, this horse would be scratched from the list. Simply for the leg problems, no feet, no horse.

I'll edit this post once I figure out what the correct technical term for it is, I'll also post any literature I find on it.

EDITED: I think he's "coon footed". Where his hoof angle doesn't match his pastern angle, it creates a weak pastern and can cause tendon problems. I think he also looks borderlined "tied in" or fine boned below his knees. Also, he seems cowhocked in back, notice how his hooves seem to point out instead of forward? Here's the literature on it, very informative site.

http://horses-arizona.com/pages/articles/legset.html

In this chart, I think he is a C(long, flat pastern known as coonfooted) and boarderlined F(fined boned below the knee).

In this chart, I think he is a B, which is only slighty cowhocked. Could be more of a C, can't be for sure without a rear pic.

 

[onthespot]

He is cute at first glance, but... I'd pass. Those front feet aren't ANYWHERE near where they need to be under him. They are parked out a couple inches too far in front of his center of his legs. He is short from point of hip to point of buttock. No amount of groceries will ever fix that. I expected a better mover in the videos, still hoping for a miracle. Sometimes horses can look odd but move like a dream. I think he moves like a train wreck. He is weak behind. I'm talking about when he is making those frequent changes of direction when he is trying hard NOT to lope, (another thing I steer clear of) and instead of engaging his hind end and balancing off that to change it looks like he is clawing his way in another direction with his front end. I don't think he is going to do it for you, not even if he was free and came with two years of free hay.

On the plus side, I don't think being skinny at this point will stunt his growth much. He has plenty of time to grow. I imagine he will make 15.3 plus... I'd rather see a few ribs as a yearling than a fat, slick, overweight tubbo with blown legs.

I'd pass on that horse. You are going to have to "ride" him for every bit of good you get out of that horse, every step of the way. Balance, lift, agility will not be easy for him and that sweet disposition can change over time if you try to make a silk purse out of him. He may not be able to be one for you.

Sorry, didn't mean to write such a downer critique of this guy. He is cute. He is just too much work for not enough good.

 

[Centaurheart]

CountryMom - Let me clarify please! I said I agreed with what you said, and added that it looked weak weak weak. It still does to me, and I'll stand by that because he looks built wrong to support his front end well. That is not something that will change with time and proper nutrition. No disrespect intended, and I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, so please accept my apology if that is how it sounded. Sometimes if you punctuate one way verses another, you totally change the meaning, and text is bad about that.

I can also tell that Pat knows what hes talking about in terms of bringing along larger horses. It's refreshing to hear someone with that attitude around, because its so true that people do overgrow youngsters too quickly with the purpose of making tall verses making strong. I don't advocate tall at all - I'd take sound any day, but I do like to feed my young Belgians and Friesians as much good quality hay/alphalfa as they want and I generally don't start them under any sort of workload (even if they are mixed) until they are fourish. I've seen draft and draft crosses keep growing until their five to seven years old. I don't mind driving young animals, but if they are riding, they really need to be strong. Then again, I'm not one to feed designer feeds either. I mix my own.

Anyhow, I hope DFCottage, you don't mind all of us having a discussion about this colt. It seems like what you wanted anyhow! One of my favorite things is talking about confirmation, and hearing about what people like and don't like. You just sorta have to take your emotions out of the logic when talking horseflesh... and sometimes if personality tips the scale. My favorite equine of all time, and best friend, had pigeon toes and a parrot mouth. Course, he was a shaggy little black and white shetland and I was five. But I wouldn't trade him for all the "perfect" in the world.

 

[FLWB039]

Anyone a livestock/horseshow judge? There must be one on here...

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

Judge? Nope. Not me. Maybe that's why I still like him. Is he Olympic quality? No, he is not. He's a backyard horse--i.e. $1000-1500 range. For that price range he is a nice prospect. "Coonfooted" seems a little strong. Mildly coonfooted to my eye, which can make for a nice, comfortable ride. Cowhocked? Maybe a mild "b". Neither of these means he won't be a good using horse. To me, a good mind and willingness to learn would more than outweigh his small faults.

JMO, of course.


Rusty

 

[CountryMom]

Quote:
Totally Agree Rusty in your opinion. I will say, that the colt needs a decent trim on those hooves before anyone could rightfully see his true angles to judge those legs and his movement.

And then I think to a horse in my pasture. He is extremely crooked in his front legs. Over in the knees and almost twisted front hooves. Our farrior is actually shoeing him to support the outside of the hoof as he grows that crooked. And he is a bit long in the back. The one thing I really like in a horse is cowhocked, but he isn't that. Has a good slope to the crop though. And all that said, the horse has won over $20k in his lifetime. The thing about him is that he LOVES to be with people and please them. And to see him move you would think he was a western pleasure horse - until you put a cow in front of him. So what does confirmation really say compared to the mind? In our horse's case not worth bothering to see all his structural faults. Just one to enjoy.

There are no perfect horses period. You go with what works for you.

 

[CountryMom]

Quote:
A horse judge would be looking for a halter horse - or comparing this yearling to what a halter horse is suppose to look like. The OP is looking for a using horse - not a halter horse. And it sure doesn't sound like this one was bred for that anyhow. None of my QH in my pastures would do well at a halter show because they are bred for working cattle and being a using horse. Way different in confirmation, but not wrong either. Just different.

 

[EweSheep]

Dont forget, not only in differences in conformation but appearance wise, there is a difference!

He appears to be a little stiff in his movements but again it could be the video. I dont see a whole lot of hock action and the flexibility of picking his feet up but it could be the trimming job that needs to be done.

He still got a lot of growing to do but I dont think he would be good for jumping because of his pasterns which it is too upright from the pictures. He would make a good pleasure horse. With the Clydes blood in him, they are not known to be jumpers because of their makeup.

I agree with Pat's suggestions and advices.

I used to be a student college judge and would I pick him? No, I would not but he certainly would make a good pleasure horse and his kindness in face and eyes shows willingness and he does not seems to be a high strung horse either.

 

[patandchickens]

I should add, I have not seen the video clips of his movement, as I am on dialup.

As far as 'judging' him by show-ring standards, you gotta ask yourself, how many horses that win on the line as youngsters actually DO much of anything impressive once they are grown? I can tell you in hunters it isn't many, and my impression from being around QH barns is that not many of them do either. Some exceptions of course, but on the whole, showing youngsters in hand is its own little world and whatever the *theory* behind the class may be, in *reality* they are not particularly focusing on the foundations of an impressive future athletic career.

And as far as judging him by comparing to pictures in horse conformation manuals, enh. I think there certainly ARE good reasons, on average, why certain constructions are poorly thought of (some more so than others -- long pasterns with feet out in front of the horse, if it's a permanent situation, is IME hard to escape lameness in real work; whereas for instance cow hocks or a mildly short quarter are more negotiable, some horses perform pretty well despite them). However it is WAY WAY WAY more complicated than just match-the-pic, in terms of knowing what the significance of a particular horse's build is likely to be. It is fine to be all armchair-conformation-judge if you don't mind spending quite a lot of money, but you're going to be overlooking quite a lot of horses that despite less than 'ideal' structure will actually perform quite well and stay good and sound throughout. The trick is getting the experience to guess correctly most of the time at which conformation 'defects', so-called, are going to cause trouble in a particular horse, and which aren't. This is not easy.

The opinion that'd really count, here, would be that of someone with lots of showring (or hunt field, or horse trials, or whatever) success from horses bought as yearlings. Not sure anyone like that is really on BYC, tho. And frankly there are not vast numbers of people like that around anywhere, since most people who are good at buying inexpensive prospects that turn out to make very successful show horses are either a) in Warmbloods or b) buying older, starting-age or just-started horses. On account of how the cost of carrying a horse for 2+ years before you can do much with him usually makes it uneconomical, at least for inexpensive horses.

Failing that, you just have to consult your conscience, ask 'will I be ok with this if he doesn't set the world on fire?', and leap whichever way you think you should

GOod luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Sorry, but I have to disagree here -- not international jumper ring jumpers maybe, but horses with a bit of Clyde in them (preferably 1/4 or less IMO) are GREAT field hunters and lower-to-mid-level eventers, and Adult Amateur type show hunters, and that sort of things. Almost all draft crosses, Clyde crosses included, really jump quite readily (yeah, a few individuals are exceptions, but I mean, on the whole) and usually with good functional form. The main knock against them is that the more Clyde blood (or features) they have, the less well they are apt to stay sound for the long haul under a lot of jumping; also as field hunters and eventers they can have trouble making the time when speed is a real issue. The actual jumping itself, though, they do good with.

Pat