Sponsored Post Tips From Nutrena: The Heat is On, But is heating the coop really necessary in winter?

[MaPa26]

I'm late getting back here, but if others come by later:

Quote:
If it makes you feel better to preach to people, preach away. You do not really know everyone's circumstances and why they do everything they do. I appreciate the shared knowledge and experience from members of this site. You come off sounding like a know-it-all who thinks everyone should do things your way. For your information, I have PLENTY of ventilation. If we didn't put up protection, our coop WOULD "feel" the windchill as wind here in KS blows over sixty miles per hour more often than we would like. We work during the day and can't run out and change the water every hour. During those polar vortex periods, the water would freeze in less than thirty minutes. THAT is why I heat: so the girls will have water. I think most of us are smart enough to realize that we will have to provide some way of keeping the water warmer next winter. Nipples would be nice, to help them avoid frostbite from water contact when they drink from a container and sling it around, but even nipples can freeze up and be damaged with the temperatures that we have had. Roosting perches should not be where a chicken has to jump down over a height of eighteen inches. If perches are too high, they will need ramps or some means of getting to a perch that is over eighteen inches high. If people want to raise them up higher in their coops, because it is warmer up high, that is their choice. My coop is not a "walk in" design. I use deep litter method and have plenty of ventilation (roof, door, window and wall vents). I am not operating anything electrical in my water containers. They have a heat lamp HIGH above the water area and that is just fine. Even with that, the water there, in the coop, would freeze when the temperatures were below zero. I never claimed that heat made my chickens lay eggs. If one uses a heat lamp (I do) that provides some extra light, that is a personal choice. Whatever you want to do with your chickens is fine by me. My chickens never "hang out" around the waterer, where there is some heat. If they did, I'd be more concerned that there may be a health problem--not that they were cold. I don't heat the area for the benefit of keeping the chickens warm and toasty, but so that they do not go without water while we are not home. If our chickens are healthy and from all appearances, happy, it is no business of yours to tell us how we should do things. But thanks for the "suggestions". I see that you don't think heating a coop is necessary. You are not alone. But most (not all) people can convey that without making others sound like we must have designed our coops incorrectly if we are using heat. That isn't necessarily the case. It just happens to be our choice. If I don't mind paying my electric bill, it isn't your concern.

 

[Utard]

I think Bruce is one of the few that gets it.

Thanks Bruce for taking the time for that.

Now if more people would really READ what you said they could understand.

 

[blucoondawg]

I will second that however I would argue with Bruce that cold/warmth doesn't effect egg laying because it does. I don't provide heat orlight except for on the very coldest nights by that I mean-30ish and when it stays below-10 or so for an extended period of time egg production stops completely. When it warms back up for a few days they lay like normal again.

 

[Utard]

Its more of a biological clock thing with the light for the birds.

Like mine for instance. I have a timer that turns on a LED 3 watt bulb before sunrise then it turns off an hour after sunrise. Then an hour or so before sunset it turns on and then about an hours after sunset the light turns off. So with the sun and the bulb they are getting 14-15 hours of light a day. I have 7 chickens and they never miss a beat. I get 6 eggs every day. I think the 2 ameraucana alternate every two days each.

Its just like some plants. You can fool them by giving them more light so they think it is summer time and since summer is the time to produce then they can do it in the winter.

Its not really a miracle that chickens have survived for thousands of years without heat from man.

If it was a big deal well.....they'd all be dead.

 

[blucoondawg]

Ya I know more light will make them lay more I just notice in times of severe cold they will slow way down or stop completely and at these times light isn't the issue as I never provide light so nothing changes in that respect, only the cold temp

 

[bruceha2000]

If it makes you feel better to preach to people, preach away. You do not really know everyone's circumstances and why they do everything they do. I appreciate the shared knowledge and experience from members of this site. You come off sounding like a know-it-all who thinks everyone should do things your way. For your information, I have PLENTY of ventilation. If we didn't put up protection, our coop WOULD "feel" the windchill as wind here in KS blows over sixty miles per hour more often than we would like. We work during the day and can't run out and change the water every hour. During those polar vortex periods, the water would freeze in less than thirty minutes. THAT is why I heat: so the girls will have water. I think most of us are smart enough to realize that we will have to provide some way of keeping the water warmer next winter. Nipples would be nice, to help them avoid frostbite from water contact when they drink from a container and sling it around, but even nipples can freeze up and be damaged with the temperatures that we have had. Roosting perches should not be where a chicken has to jump down over a height of eighteen inches. If perches are too high, they will need ramps or some means of getting to a perch that is over eighteen inches high. If people want to raise them up higher in their coops, because it is warmer up high, that is their choice. My coop is not a "walk in" design. I use deep litter method and have plenty of ventilation (roof, door, window and wall vents). I am not operating anything electrical in my water containers. They have a heat lamp HIGH above the water area and that is just fine. Even with that, the water there, in the coop, would freeze when the temperatures were below zero. I never claimed that heat made my chickens lay eggs. If one uses a heat lamp (I do) that provides some extra light, that is a personal choice. Whatever you want to do with your chickens is fine by me. My chickens never "hang out" around the waterer, where there is some heat. If they did, I'd be more concerned that there may be a health problem--not that they were cold. I don't heat the area for the benefit of keeping the chickens warm and toasty, but so that they do not go without water while we are not home. If our chickens are healthy and from all appearances, happy, it is no business of yours to tell us how we should do things. But thanks for the "suggestions". I see that you don't think heating a coop is necessary. You are not alone. But most (not all) people can convey that without making others sound like we must have designed our coops incorrectly if we are using heat. That isn't necessarily the case. It just happens to be our choice. If I don't mind paying my electric bill, it isn't your concern.

Your response was to everything I posted, not just my reply to your entry. Please do not think that my responses to other posts were meant to apply to you specifically.


I am sorry I offended or came across as "preachy".

- Your post didn't say that you heated as the only way to keep the water from freezing and yes I recognize that everyone does what they need to to solve specific problems.
- You will note that I mentioned the problem I have with nipple waterers outside the coop but still in the barn, they freeze at about 15F even with circulating heated water, thus the 250W heat lamp over the plastic waterer when it is colder. The nipples in the pipe built into the floor of the nest box and insulated with JUST the metal pins sticking out didn't freeze even at -20F. The nest box is in the coop.

It was that unfortunate need to use the heat lamp and seeing the chickens' response to the availability of heat that convinced me 100% that very few people have a need to heat their coops FOR THE CHICKENS' comfort. I would have bet that a moulting chicken would hang by the heat when it was sub zero F if not even a lot warmer. But they don't.

CGoguen's experience suggests the same thing from the opposite "side". Mine choose not to go to the heat during the day when they have the opportunity to do so. CGoguen's chickens CHOSE to sleep in the run BECAUSE the coop was heated.

Find some of the posts from last winter where people in Florida were fretting about it getting down near freezing and heating their coops because the chickens would be too cold. The intent of my post was to demonstrate the very cold temperatures at which chickens voluntarily avoid heat. My chickens don't mind cold and they don't mind wind but NOT at the same time. They pretty much hang in the barn (VERY old and drafty other than in the coop which is a converted horse stall) if it is below about 20F unless there is no wind outside AND it is sunny AND there is open ground. They like to eat the snow off my boots, but if there is nothing to interest them outside, they choose not to go in the snow very much. With no bugs or growing stuff out there, there isn't anything interesting to them. But if we get a warm spell (meaning above freezing) and the snow melts by the path I shovel to get to the barn, they will go out to nip at whatever green grass they can find if it isn't cold AND windy.

Do your chickens have roosts higher than 18" and if so, do they use a ramp? I have two parallel 10' roosts at 4' and an 8' one 9" forward of that at 2'. None ever sleep on the 2' roost. Most of the girls use the 2' one as a mid stop on the way up when they are all jockeying for position but they can all fly to 4' if needed. Some more easily than others of course, depends on the breed and size. The smallest 2 are Cubalayas, about 2/3 the size of a standard chicken and they are flyers. 4' for them is a hop and 4 flaps almost straight up. Same with an Ancona that will fly to my shoulder sometimes (no idea why, I'm not inviting her) and that is about 5'. But if there isn't enough distance forward of a roost for both going up (easy) and more importantly coming down (they aren't helicopters so they need some "runway"), I guess they might need a ramp parallel to the roosts. The problem with ramps is chicken poop ;-)

I stand by some of my statements "for all" - specifically:
- If there is air blowing over the birds in the winter, the coop DOES need to be changed/redesigned.
- If there is too much humidity due to lack of ventilation, the coop DOES need to be changed/redesigned. It isn't just for frostbite, the ammonia buildup is much more of a danger to the birds.
- There is no reason to have a light on during the day FOR LIGHT unless there is no natural light.
- It has to be REALLY cold for a chicken to need heat for THEMSELVES.

Bruce

 

[MaPa26]

Quote:

Your response was to everything I posted, not just my reply to your entry. Please do not think that my responses to other posts were meant to apply to you specifically.


I am sorry I offended or came across as "preachy".

- Your post didn't say that you heated as the only way to keep the water from freezing and yes I recognize that everyone does what they need to to solve specific problems.
- You will note that I mentioned the problem I have with nipple waterers outside the coop but still in the barn, they freeze at about 15F even with circulating heated water, thus the 250W heat lamp over the plastic waterer when it is colder. The nipples in the pipe built into the floor of the nest box and insulated with JUST the metal pins sticking out didn't freeze even at -20F. The nest box is in the coop. It was that unfortunate need to use the heat lamp and seeing the chickens' response to the availability of heat that convinced me 100% that very few people have a need to heat their coops FOR THE CHICKENS' comfort. I would have bet that a moulting chicken would hang by the heat when it was sub zero F if not even a lot warmer. But they don't.

Find some of the posts from last winter where people in Florida were fretting about it getting down near freezing and heating their coops because the chickens would be too cold. The intent of my post was to demonstrate the very cold temperatures at which chickens voluntarily avoid heat. My chickens don't mind cold and they don't mind wind but NOT at the same time. They pretty much hang in the barn (VERY old and drafty other than in the coop which is a converted horse stall) if it is below about 20F unless there is no wind outside AND it is sunny AND there is open ground. They like to eat the snow off my boots, but if there is nothing to interest them outside, they choose not to go in the snow very much. With no bugs or growing stuff out there, there isn't anything interesting to them. But if we get a warm spell (meaning above freezing) and the snow melts by the path I shovel to get to the barn, they will go out to nip at whatever green grass they can find if it isn't cold AND windy.

Do your chickens have roosts higher than 18" and if so, do they use a ramp? I have two parallel 10' roosts at 4' and an 8' one 9" forward of that at 2'. None ever sleep on the 2' roost. Most of the girls use the 2' one as a mid stop on the way up when they are all jockeying for position but they can all fly to 4' if needed. Some more easily than others of course, depends on the breed and size. The smallest 2 are Cubalayas, about 2/3 the size of a standard chicken and they are flyers. 4' for them is a hop and 4 flaps almost straight up. Same with an Ancona that will fly to my shoulder sometimes (no idea why, I'm not inviting her) and that is about 5'. But if there isn't enough distance forward of a roost for both going up (easy) and more importantly coming down (they aren't helicopters so they need some "runway"), I guess they might need a ramp parallel to the roosts. The problem with ramps is chicken poop ;-)

I stand by some of my statements "for all" - specifically:
- If there is air blowing over the birds in the winter, the coop DOES need to be changed/redesigned.
- If there is too much humidity due to lack of ventilation, the coop DOES need to be changed/redesigned. It isn't just for frostbite, the ammonia buildup is much more of a danger to the birds.
- There is no reason to have a light on during the day FOR LIGHT unless there is no natural light.
- It has to be REALLY cold for a chicken to need heat for THEMSELVES.

Bruce

I feel completely different this morning. Chalk it up to my low blood sugar last night. lol. In the Fall, just before that first cold snap (if you can call a Polar Vortex dropping over the States as a cold "snap"), we put up some wind blocks on the pen. The way my hubby wanted the coop and pen set up, their "pop" door is on the north side and air can go right in. Air wouldn't go right on their perch, but if it blows hard enough, it will whip around in the coop and probably chill them. The opening doesn't have a door because we wanted the girls to be able to come out into the pen as soon as they wanted. A door with a light-sensitive opener would be nice. But it isn't in the budget right now. Back to the wind blocks. If you see my photos, you'll see there is a perch in one corner of their outdoor pen. (One entire side is open, but unless the wind is really whipping around between the shop and the pen, it doesn't blow on them.) On many nights, they will roost right out there. But first thing in the morning, they will start heading into the coop to their nests. While they are in there, they can find water that isn't frozen. I think my granddaughter could have made an ice castle out of the accumulated chunks of ice that came out of the bowls from the pen and yard this winter. I do plan to make some buckets with nipples. Someone suggested that, since my girls free range, the buckets could be hung up under shady trees when summer gets here. You are right. I re-read my old post and I was not specific, in that post, about heating to keep water available. I know I had mentioned it in other posts, so I just thought I had in that one, too. AND since I key slower than I think, I tend to think I typed something that I didn't. lol. Oh well. I think we did a great job on ventilation. I bought some Sweet PDZ, because I anticipated that my coop might start getting dirtier than I can keep up with when there is a foot of snow on the ground and they do NOT want to go out, except for in the pen (if we had not covered it with opaque panels, I'd be shoveling out the pen). We keep putting straw in the pen so they love scratching in it and nestling down in it. Anyway, back to the coop. I have not had to use the PDZ. It has not gotten smelly in the coop. When I get a good day with no wind and decent temps, I rake the worst of the poo and put down a couple more inches of fresh pine shavings. I am looking forward to getting the old composted poo and shavings from my compost piles and working them into my garden and then starting a new one (or two) when I give the coop a Spring cleaning. Our pen has the proper amount of window for a 40 square foot coop, PLUS an additional window up high that lets in more light. We also have a dusk to dawn light that gives me enough light that, if I go out there at night, I can peek in the window and check on them and don't even need a flashlight, but the pen is so dark, now, because of the wood panels, that we keep a light in there just in case I need it to see what I'm doing. I was hoping to keep the panel on the west side up, this summer, if it helps keep the pen a little cooler. If it still heats up, the panels are removable; just bolted on, so they can be stored in our shop. The panels on the north side are definitely coming down. Always, always, always room for improvement. Oh- we didn't want our roosts any higher than eighteen inches not just because of the limited height inside of the coop, itself, but because I had read many warnings from people who said that some of their chickens developed bumble foot or could incur internal damage from jumping down from high places, on a regular basis. I am not taking any chances. They do it often enough just around the yard and our deck. I don't need to add to the chances of injury. If I had a walk-in coop, I would put the poop board at a convenient cleaning height, with the perch about twelve or fifteen inches above it, but I would make sure they had a ramp to climb up to the board.

 

[Utard]

Ya I know more light will make them lay more I just notice in times of severe cold they will slow way down or stop completely and at these times light isn't the issue as I never provide light so nothing changes in that respect, only the cold temp

I would be more inclined to think it could be some other environmental factors? Who knows? Maybe I just got lucky this year? But in a lot of animals the biological clock is very strong with them.

This is my hens first winter. Maybe younger ones do better? I will have a better feel next year since I am moving and at least tripling the amount of birds I will have. Plus the fact I am a complete novice at this

We have a very dry climate here. But we did have a very cold time in december. Cooler than average. Down to low single digits for a little over a week straight the first time.

The only day I did have a problem is when the water froze and they did not have water for about 16-18 hours? I felt bad about that so I extra made sure that did not happen again.

 

[bruceha2000]

Always, always, always room for improvement. Oh- we didn't want our roosts any higher than eighteen inches not just because of the limited height inside of the coop, itself, but because I had read many warnings from people who said that some of their chickens developed bumble foot or could incur internal damage from jumping down from high places, on a regular basis. I am not taking any chances. They do it often enough just around the yard and our deck. I don't need to add to the chances of injury. If I had a walk-in coop, I would put the poop board at a convenient cleaning height, with the perch about twelve or fifteen inches above it, but I would make sure they had a ramp to climb up to the board.

Yep, I don't make ANYTHING that I don't later think of some way it could be improved. So many things, so little time

I just checked on bumblefoot, it is a bacterial infection they get in cuts on their feet. I doubt a chicken would get it from coming down off a roost if they land in shavings. What I have seen posted is they may damage their legs if the land hard, thus the need for adequate "runway" so they can fly down and "run out" like a parachutist.

I still think I'd go for something they could hop down to as a mid point (like my parallel 2' high roost if you have the space) rather than a ramp if you are concerned about the DOWN height. As you know by now, chickens poop whenever and wherever. Just one more thing to clean. They wouldn't likely use the ramp to go up anyway, at least not most of it. For one thing, as I am sure you have observed, chickens aren't very democratic. One or two would start up the ramp and get shoved off by a bird higher in the order deciding she wants to go up at the same time. I have a long ramp going out a barn window with a missing pane (and a plywood "door" for closing at night) to their outdoor 'pen' (*), probably a 30 degree slope, and it still needed cleats every couple of inches so they could walk up when they were too small to fly the ~5.5' to the window. Once they got bigger, they mostly flew to near the top, then walked in. They would go down a foot or two on the way out, then fly the remaining 4'. Same thing on the inside. I made a short ramp that they used when they were little, but now they just use it as a staging area to get out the window if the doors on the barn are closed. The missing pane area is only about 8"x10" so it is single file. Push, shove. "No, *I* want to go out first" "Hey I want to come in ... NOW. Get out of the way".

But now they are full grown and just go in and out the people doors at the ends of the barn alley (barring any predators, knock on wood, been safe so far). We open them in the morning and shut them at bird bedtime. There was evidence of a chicken door in one of the people doors way back. Someone else screwed plywood over the opening, I'm guessing the door rotted. I made a new door so they can go in and out if they like without having to have the people doors open when it is raining, snowing or really windy.

One thing to look for, with respect to your "straight into the coop" opening. Someone posted a picture last year of their windproof opening. Basically a U shaped tunnel. The wind won't make the 180 turn into the coop. Very slick.

I gave serious consideration to a poop board (or hammock, seems like a great idea - just take it out, dump the poop in the compost pile and hose it off) but a quick rake daily and occasionally adding more pine shavings seems to work fine. It is below freezing most of the winter so the poop becomes frozen rocks in no time. I take the clear plastic off the sides of the coop (the part on the 2 sides above the 4' high plywood walls) and leave the people door on the coop open all day in the summer. That seems to allow plenty of air clearing ventilation with the people doors on the barn alley ends also open (not to mention the natural flow in a 100+ year old barn). The girls aren't in the coop during the day anyway, they pop out as soon as their auto door opens (on a timer) and only go back in to lay or eat crumbles. I got the auto door last spring when the house was undergoing major reconstruction and we had to live elsewhere. It was neither practical nor reasonable to drive 25 miles every morning to let them out and I couldn't see having them "trapped" in the coop all day so the door paid for itself in gas money pretty fast.

(*) Nothing more than about an 18' squarish area surrounded by chicken wire. I made it so they could be somewhat confined when they were small. Now they just fly out so it isn't really used.

Bruce

 

[dwgov]

Hey everybody! I'm in South Jersey & this winter has been pretty tough. It's been way below freezing for weeks at a time. I was worried at 1st about my birds & contemplated putting a heat lamp in the coop. Well, my coop isn't insulated & has pretty much been cold. I did staple some garbage bags over the windows to prevent drafts. I have 14 hens & 1 rooster. Other than shoveling snow from their run & making sure they have food & their bulb in my makeshift water heater doesn't burn out, they have been absolutely fine. Even their egg laying hasn't been effected 1 bit. I am pretty new to this & just got my flock last Spring. The 1 thing I have learned is that we as humans worry to much & most of the time it's better to leave well enough alone. Nature tends to take care of itself unless we try to screw it up...