Tired of feeding freeloaders

[Kelly Caudle]

I'm not talking about the chickens. So far I've tried three different types of feeders:

There was the very basic ports cut into the bucket feeder . . . which I quickly realized was feeding mice more than it was my chickens. I still use this when I have chicks that are too small to operate the newest feeder (we'll get there in a minute)

Then I tried this: https://a.co/d/0YZY6Ch , a port style feeder with high legs. It thwarted the mice simply because it was too high for them to reach, so they moved on. Then I witnessed the squirrels hanging from the top of the feeder and reaching in to get the goods while the chickens waited patiently for the squirrels to move on.

Then I switched to a treadle feeder: https://a.co/d/0YZY6Ch which seemed to work for awhile, but now the squirrels figured out how it works and they're apparently heavy enough to make it work . . . probably from all the chicken feed they've been eating the fat little varmints.

These seem to be the most common ones. Are there other feeders I'm not aware of that will keep out the wildlife? Chicken feed isn't cheap. If it's possible I'd like to find one that young chicks and full grown chickens can both use, but not feed every critter within 200 miles. Is there something I could add to the feed that squirrels, in particular, don't like that wouldn't deter the chickens from eating it? Mice aren't heavy enough (yet) to operate the treadle feeder, so squirrels are the current problem.

I have an open-air coop/run, so keeping things like mice and squirrels out of it is impossible. I thought about putting feeders in a plywood box with an automatic door, but that would still need to be open during the day so the chickens can still have access to it.

TIA

We have had a lot of problems with squirrels and finally purchased “the squirrelnator it has two entrances and no way out, it’s a good trap, had 4 on two hours, and you can move it all over, just add chicken scratch in the middle and they’ll find the way in, good luck hope you find something that works

 

[redinator]

We have had a lot of problems with squirrels and finally purchased “the squirrelnator it has two entrances and no way out, it’s a good trap, had 4 on two hours, and you can move it all over, just add chicken scratch in the middle and they’ll find the way in, good luck hope you find something that works

What about chicks getting trapped? Any issues there? Is it only a trap, or does it kill them?

ETA: Found this video:

incase anyone else is looking. The doors look small enough to prevent chicks at least 2-3 weeks old from getting trapped. It looks like a viable option if it turns out I need it.

 

[Bumacindy]

I'm not talking about the chickens. So far I've tried three different types of feeders:

There was the very basic ports cut into the bucket feeder . . . which I quickly realized was feeding mice more than it was my chickens. I still use this when I have chicks that are too small to operate the newest feeder (we'll get there in a minute)

Then I tried this: https://a.co/d/0YZY6Ch , a port style feeder with high legs. It thwarted the mice simply because it was too high for them to reach, so they moved on. Then I witnessed the squirrels hanging from the top of the feeder and reaching in to get the goods while the chickens waited patiently for the squirrels to move on.

Then I switched to a treadle feeder: https://a.co/d/0YZY6Ch which seemed to work for awhile, but now the squirrels figured out how it works and they're apparently heavy enough to make it work . . . probably from all the chicken feed they've been eating the fat little varmints.

These seem to be the most common ones. Are there other feeders I'm not aware of that will keep out the wildlife? Chicken feed isn't cheap. If it's possible I'd like to find one that young chicks and full grown chickens can both use, but not feed every critter within 200 miles. Is there something I could add to the feed that squirrels, in particular, don't like that wouldn't deter the chickens from eating it? Mice aren't heavy enough (yet) to operate the treadle feeder, so squirrels are the current problem.

I have an open-air coop/run, so keeping things like mice and squirrels out of it is impossible. I thought about putting feeders in a plywood box with an automatic door, but that would still need to be open during the day so the chickens can still have access to it.

TIA

I so far have found nothing to keep the little rascals out of the feed. I do however find that when I get bird bread from my local bakery and I put enough out the little rascals are satisfied and do less damage as far as trying to get into my pens at night. I am feeding deer and my chickens the bread as well, so I figured why not the rats and other critters. I have a stray cat that comes at night to help with the rat issue and also draws them out for the owls to get. So, all and all its working. I also bring in any leftover feed and put back into my metal bins so that helps as well. My chickens and ducks are pretty fisty, so the rats seem to come out more at night, so I make sure I put the bread up front so that they are accessible to the cat and owl.

 

[Arrowen]

I'm not talking about the chickens. So far I've tried three different types of feeders:

There was the very basic ports cut into the bucket feeder . . . which I quickly realized was feeding mice more than it was my chickens. I still use this when I have chicks that are too small to operate the newest feeder (we'll get there in a minute)

Then I tried this: https://a.co/d/0YZY6Ch , a port style feeder with high legs. It thwarted the mice simply because it was too high for them to reach, so they moved on. Then I witnessed the squirrels hanging from the top of the feeder and reaching in to get the goods while the chickens waited patiently for the squirrels to move on.

Then I switched to a treadle feeder: https://a.co/d/0YZY6Ch which seemed to work for awhile, but now the squirrels figured out how it works and they're apparently heavy enough to make it work . . . probably from all the chicken feed they've been eating the fat little varmints.

These seem to be the most common ones. Are there other feeders I'm not aware of that will keep out the wildlife? Chicken feed isn't cheap. If it's possible I'd like to find one that young chicks and full grown chickens can both use, but not feed every critter within 200 miles. Is there something I could add to the feed that squirrels, in particular, don't like that wouldn't deter the chickens from eating it? Mice aren't heavy enough (yet) to operate the treadle feeder, so squirrels are the current problem.

I have an open-air coop/run, so keeping things like mice and squirrels out of it is impossible. I thought about putting feeders in a plywood box with an automatic door, but that would still need to be open during the day so the chickens can still have access to it.

TIA

Cayenne pepper. Mammals don’t like it but hens have no problems with it. I put a 2T to a 25kg sack. Does the trick.

 

[MotherHenCt]

I use the "Grandpas Feeder" The lid closes and the chickens need to step on the plate to open it. It goes by weight so I'm not sure if a squirrel can open it or if they could would they know how to operate it. (I don't have squirrels in the run, knock on wood) It does take about 2 weeks of training where the feeder remains open. Right now I'm training pullets on it. So it stays open, so at night I go out and put a piece of plywood and a brick on it and uncover it in the morning to keep critters out overnight. But after the 2 training is over it closes automatically after the chickens step away. I have 2 and love them. Very well made.

 

[Al Gerhart]

Cayenne pepper. Mammals don’t like it but hens have no problems with it. I put a 2T to a 25kg sack. Does the trick.

You might believe that it works but scientific studies have proven that no form of capsaicin will work even at an uneconomical amount. Here is the math. 25 kg of layer pellets is 25.8375 quarts, one quart is 64 tablespoons. That is 1635.6 table spoons. In the scientific study below they used 4% of capsaicin which would be 1kg or 2.2 pounds. I found 250grams on Amazon, $17.00 plus tax and shipping, $64.00 plus tax for 1 kilo plus tax and shipping.

BTW, with kilograms the math is far simpler. 4% of 25 kilos is one kilo.

Tractor supply as 50 pounds of layer pellets for $16.99 so right away you see that a bag of treated feed to the levels used in the scientific study costs around $70.00 on top of the cost of the feed, call it $90.00 per bag by the time you pay the sales tax on the feed and the capsaicin to treat it to the bare minimum as in the study.

5 times the feed cost with no benefit and that much capsaicin cannot be healthy for the hens. Your two tablespoons just make you feel better.

Now, I am a lazy person at times and I've posted this same info to dispel the same well meaning misinformation several times so forgive the copy and past from a past post about capsaicin. The math on the capsaicin might be different due to recent prices.


Quote:


"This would be awesome were it actually a valid method but too many studies have been done, peer reviewed studies, to give much credence to capsaicin working long term. Here is an exert from one study. To set it up, they offered two feeds,one treated with capsaicin at different heat levels (SHU) and one normal feed. Plus they had another study done previously as a control, just plain untreated feed.


https://archive.org/download/wikipe...s/10.1002%2Fpon.3910.zip/10.1002%2Fps.705.pdf Copy and paste link and it downloads a pdf file

For both treated diets, results of pairwise comparisons reflected perceived differences in alternative feed that was available to rodents among sites (Table1). At sites 1 and 3, additional feed
sources, were low to moderate, and feeding stations were located in small buildings(45 and 20m2, respectively). Similar patterns in response to the treated diets were observed at each of these sites. Initially,consumption of the poultry feed decreased dramatically at sites 1 and3 when the 2000SHU diet was offered, and remained low for 8 days.Thereafter, feed consumption increased and approached pre-treatment levels of consumption. Tolerance of rodents to the capsaicin may have increased over this time period and, with a lack of alternative feed, animals had probably reached some hunger threshold. At site1, rats did not decrease feed consumption when offered the 3000SHUdiet. Previous exposure to the 2000SHU diet may have increased tolerance to capsaicin. In additional, rats may have become more dependent on the poultry feed. This explanation is supported in part by the increase in consumption of the control diet over thethree2-week periods that it was offered at site1.


Consumption of the control diet did not change over the study period at site 3,but consumption of both treated diets increased over the 2-weekperiods they were offered. Moreover, carry-over effects may have influenced feed consumption when diet treatments were changed,although visual inspection of the data suggests that any such effects were likely minimal (Figs1and2)

End quote.

In short,they found that adding capsaicin to chicken feed did produce temporary results until the rodents became accustomed to it,then the liked it as much as the untreated feed. But, in the short term, it did lead the rodents to prefer the bait they set out, albeit bait without the poison. Obviously they couldn't use poison b it or their rats would die so they used the bait without the poison.

The bad news, 4% by weight capsaicin was used. An ounce of pure capsaicin runs $20.00 on Amazon.A bag of feed, 50 pounds, needs roughly two pounds of capsaicin. Do the math, even a one pound container of plain cayenne pepper costs$20 plus shipping so $40.00 plus to treat one bag of chicken feed. It would be cheaper to just buy more feed for the rats.

What you saw was real but it was the initial reaction to something unfamiliar and rats are very smart. When he got hungry he would be back and in a few days it would be eating as much as before"

(end quote.)

Back to the study, using the capsaicin does work for a few days and it can be used to drive rats to eat other feed laced with poison, maybe. But on its own the rats get used to it, then they prefer it. Look at the last sentenced emphasized in bold text.

 

[MotherHenCt]

That's the treadle feeder we currently have and the fat little varmints (squirrels) are heavy enough to operate it.

As long as you don't have small chickens or chicks, there might be a way to make the treadle feeder only open for heavier things. Search how much the squirrels in your area way, add a little more just to be sure, then adjust the weight to open for things heavier than that. Maybe using a counter weight, like a see saw? Try googling your brand and type of feeder and "adjust weight" or similar things to that. Maybe someone did it already and posted it online. I just searched for "can you adjust the weight on a treadle chicken feeder" and got some good responces but it all depends on what type of feeder you have. One said adjust the springs but some dont have springs.

 

[Arrowen]

You might believe that it works but scientific studies have proven that no form of capsaicin will work even at an uneconomical amount. Here is the math. 25 kg of layer pellets is 25.8375 quarts, one quart is 64 tablespoons. That is 1635.6 table spoons. In the scientific study below they used 4% of capsaicin which would be 1kg or 2.2 pounds. I found 250grams on Amazon, $17.00 plus tax and shipping, $64.00 plus tax for 1 kilo plus tax and shipping.

BTW, with kilograms the math is far simpler. 4% of 25 kilos is one kilo.

Tractor supply as 50 pounds of layer pellets for $16.99 so right away you see that a bag of treated feed to the levels used in the scientific study costs around $70.00 on top of the cost of the feed, call it $90.00 per bag by the time you pay the sales tax on the feed and the capsaicin to treat it to the bare minimum as in the study.

5 times the feed cost with no benefit and that much capsaicin cannot be healthy for the hens. Your two tablespoons just make you feel better.

Now, I am a lazy person at times and I've posted this same info to dispel the same well meaning misinformation several times so forgive the copy and past from a past post about capsaicin. The math on the capsaicin might be different due to recent prices.


Quote:


"This would be awesome were it actually a valid method but too many studies have been done, peer reviewed studies, to give much credence to capsaicin working long term. Here is an exert from one study. To set it up, they offered two feeds,one treated with capsaicin at different heat levels (SHU) and one normal feed. Plus they had another study done previously as a control, just plain untreated feed.


https://archive.org/download/wikipe...s/10.1002%2Fpon.3910.zip/10.1002%2Fps.705.pdf Copy and paste link and it downloads a pdf file

For both treated diets, results of pairwise comparisons reflected perceived differences in alternative feed that was available to rodents among sites (Table1). At sites 1 and 3, additional feed
sources, were low to moderate, and feeding stations were located in small buildings(45 and 20m2, respectively). Similar patterns in response to the treated diets were observed at each of these sites. Initially,consumption of the poultry feed decreased dramatically at sites 1 and3 when the 2000SHU diet was offered, and remained low for 8 days.Thereafter, feed consumption increased and approached pre-treatment levels of consumption. Tolerance of rodents to the capsaicin may have increased over this time period and, with a lack of alternative feed, animals had probably reached some hunger threshold. At site1, rats did not decrease feed consumption when offered the 3000SHUdiet. Previous exposure to the 2000SHU diet may have increased tolerance to capsaicin. In additional, rats may have become more dependent on the poultry feed. This explanation is supported in part by the increase in consumption of the control diet over thethree2-week periods that it was offered at site1.


Consumption of the control diet did not change over the study period at site 3,but consumption of both treated diets increased over the 2-weekperiods they were offered. Moreover, carry-over effects may have influenced feed consumption when diet treatments were changed,although visual inspection of the data suggests that any such effects were likely minimal (Figs1and2)

End quote.

In short,they found that adding capsaicin to chicken feed did produce temporary results until the rodents became accustomed to it,then the liked it as much as the untreated feed. But, in the short term, it did lead the rodents to prefer the bait they set out, albeit bait without the poison. Obviously they couldn't use poison b it or their rats would die so they used the bait without the poison.

The bad news, 4% by weight capsaicin was used. An ounce of pure capsaicin runs $20.00 on Amazon.A bag of feed, 50 pounds, needs roughly two pounds of capsaicin. Do the math, even a one pound container of plain cayenne pepper costs$20 plus shipping so $40.00 plus to treat one bag of chicken feed. It would be cheaper to just buy more feed for the rats.

What you saw was real but it was the initial reaction to something unfamiliar and rats are very smart. When he got hungry he would be back and in a few days it would be eating as much as before"

(end quote.)

Back to the study, using the capsaicin does work for a few days and it can be used to drive rats to eat other feed laced with poison, maybe. But on its own the rats get used to it, then they prefer it. Look at the last sentenced emphasized in bold text.

Thanks Al, good information. I’ve been using it for five years now and I haven’t had any mice rats rabbits or possums eating the feed (I’m in New Zealand) since I’ve done it, so I’ve always figured it works. I’ll keep it up for a while longer even if physiologically it works.

 

[Bawkbok]

We started having a squirrel problem just in the past two weeks with squirrels getting into the open air run which is welded wire, which is completely zip tied with 1/4" nylon shade cloth. We've had no issues with critters or predators prior to this point. A momma squirrel showed her two young ones how and where to squeeze through an opening of the nylon shade cloth on one end that connects to the run. Today the chickens were out roaming the yard which is when I noticed one of the nasty critters in the run. I trapped it in the smaller run and had a good time watching it bang itself up against one side and then the other trying to escape with my presence only a couple of feet away. I actually grabbed it with my hand (first mistake), it turned to bite me which freaked me out and I automatically released my hand (second mistake). The little bas$#rd retaliated by jumping on my face, literally. I felt it's claws scrape my chin and it's mouth made contact with my cheek. @moonshiner, I feel your pain. Now I got pissed. I picked up the nearest thing I could find which was a pretty good sized tree log and bashed it against the run wall, which from the inside is just the coated wire. The "wall" flexed enough against all this pressure and as I withdrew my arm to exert another bash, it gave the squirrel enough flexibility to get away from under the log and squeezed through from the smaller run into the large one and out the door so fast it's ass was on fire.
By the time I got into the house my face was bleeding profusely. Their claws are like ninja swords! I spent the next two hours adding hardware cloth on top of the nylon netting which is zippied to the welded wire. I only had enough cloth to cover the points of failure from where I could see they were getting in and out (nylon was ripped).
In lieu of making a huge investment in hardware cloth to cover the entire run 12'x9', I will be having my coffee in the morning watching the chickens as usual, but with a tool in hand. At the first sight of that squirrel, he'll be eating a pellet for breakfast. I don't like to hurt wildlife but I'm not messing around with this one. It's aggressive and mean and apparently not deterred by humans.

Later today, the same bas%$rd ran in front of the chickens, getting only a foot away. One of the brave girls started to give chase until the squirrel stopped, turned and sat on it's haunches daring her to continue. She stopped and thought twice. I was quickly making my way toward the squirrel and when it saw me it took off.

Don't waste your time switching your chickens from pellets to crumbles. They LOVE crumbles, which is what we feed.

I never thought about feeding the squirrel to the chickens......not a bad idea except that squirrels can carry rabies. Yet another thing to worry about with my already failing health - geezopete.

https://a-z-animals.com/animals/squirrel/can-squirrels-have-rabies-what-to-do-after-a-squirrel-bite/

 

[Bawkbok]

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Yes, squirrels can carry rabies, but it is very rare for them to do so. They are much less likely to be infected with rabies compared to other small mammals like raccoons and bats. crittercontrol.com skedaddlewildlife.com