Traditional Serama

[KIDDSBANTAMS]

Why are they American? The cochin is not Chinese or american, it is a cochin. Same we any breed, just because some want to call them American does not make it so. They are Seramas and that is why there is much confusion. It never is one person, that is plain stupid to say, it also takes 2 to cause a fight unless you fight with yourself.

 

[Carolynspeeps]

They are "American Serama" because that is the name given to the breed developed in America and recognized by the American Bantam Association. Much like the "Rhode Island Red" that was developed in Rhode island, recognized as a breed in 1830 and is still known as the Rhode Island Red. Or the "Plymouth Rock" that was developed in 1869 in a town called Plymouth. It too has maintained it's given name.

 

[ocseramas]

As for FFA and 4H, I really would like clarification on this so I don't spread misinformation if asked about birds for 4H, FFA. My current understanding is that the youth are being judged on their knowledge and handling of the birds, the birds themselves are not being judged. In fact it is considered beneficial if the youth exhibitor can point out his/her bird's faults and/or the reason(s) why same are not considered show quality.

You are correct! The youth are to put the birds in and out of a cage correctly, carry and hold their bird correctly, walk the bird on a table, know the type, variety of their bird, parts of the bird, and know information about their breed and the particular birds faults, disqualifications if any.

 

[Laingcroft]

Quote (in red) from Carolynspeeps:

Traditional by definition is something handed down without formalization through the generations or as a tradition. In its native land, there has been no set standard for the Serama to date, just a conglomeration of types and that's what got off the boat in 2001. Birds of that type are traditional serama. After 10 years of intensive breeding to create birds of the type described in the American Standard it seems to be a huge step backward to focus on the unrefined type that will never seek recognition and touts itself as a backyard pet. All Serama make great pets regardless of what you call them, or the quality of their breeding. However, even with lack of good breeding, they are still American Serama. Just as puppy mill Chihuahuas may not meet the standard of their Westminster counterparts, they are all still called Chihuahuas, no new standard created to accommodate them. Since you seem to have been involved with Serama for some time, I'm preaching to the choir to say American breeders worked hard to standardize type and frankly are still working hard to get several color varieties to breed true. Some of these varieties may never receive recognition (their developers might not even seek recognition - gasp!) but each has its fan base and they wouldn't be considered culls by those folks at all. I don't see how calling a purple with pink polka dots Serama that has good type (as per the Standard) a Traditional Serama is deceptive; confusing - more likely. Definitely confusing! And a name is no guarantee of quality; a cull under the American Serama name is just as much a cull as one under the heading Traditional Serama - the price of either can be inflated to someone willing to pay for it.
I suppose I am frustrated most by the confusion created by this unnecessary label for our American Serama. Such sweet little birds.


I would consider this reasoning a bit specious. If, as most seem to agree, the Traditional standard is too much like the American standard, then the Traditional type is not really unrefined. It may be a step back, but not in the way I think you mean. I can think of several examples in dogs (never mind turkeys and "meat" chickens) that would benefit from taking a step back. I'll limit it to these few so I don't go off on a ranting tangent unrelated to chickens

-- Old English Bulldog (as improved by Americans can no longer reproduce without human intervention), American Cocker Spaniel (which would get hopelessly tangled in underbrush if put to the use for which its ancestors were originally bred and now has a reputation for lousy temperaments) and the German Shepherd which suffered from the popularity of RinTinTin. Now let's visit the other side - the so called designer doodle dogs. AKC/show people are horrified at the thought of their purebreds being used to create these designer dogs but what they seem to forget is that 1) their purebreds were derived from something else, they just have the advantage of more generations on their side, 2) F1 crosses have their uses in many areas including horticulture and 3) these doodle dogs are popular for a reason - they fill a need i.e. reduced allergens (supposedly), reduced shedding and the benefits of temperament from the parent breeds. For whatever reasons, people are willing to shell out big bucks for what are basically mutts (and don't care about AKC registration.) The prices will stay high as long as the demand is high and supply low because it is difficult to obtain quality purebred parents.

And I agree with your second statement wholeheartedly; these are sweet little birds with great personalities and steady temperament --- from what I've seen so far. I'd hate to see them loose that in pursuit of prettiness. Too many times substance is sacrificed for style.

The more I ponder this, the more I believe this is a time of transition for the Serama. Only the American standard and white variety have been "set in stone" for exhibition purposes under the APA/ABA. Everything else is still up for debate. For example, I like black chickens with black shanks/toes and dark eyes - like the Australorp - and think yellow legs on a black bird are, frankly, unattractive. If the accepted requirements for the black variety call for yellow, I cannot breed for black and expect to sell offspring as "show quality" as opposed to "pet quality" without being dishonest. That however does not necessarily mean my black legged blacks are inferior if everything else is to the standard. It only means that I am breeding what I like and sharing it with others who have the same preferences I do. If the original importation contained black birds with black shanks/toes and the Malay breeders are still breeding black/black birds then I don't see why calling them traditionally typed or malay typed is a fiction. I also don't believe that necessarily makes the birds "cull" quality - except to the extent it can't be shown in APA/ABA sanctioned shows, but only if one cares about showing. (BTW, one person's cull can be another person's foundation stock as anything one sells because it does not fit his/her breeding goals is technically a cull.)

However, I do think it does the Serama a disservice to have so many confusing titles. Why can't we call them all Serama - or American Serama if that is what has already been formalized - and then include varieties such as traditional (original coloration, micro, etc.), malay type (beyond the vertical, etc.) as part of the standard or as national club sanctioned addenda to the standard if such types/varieties wouldn't be accepted by the APA/ABA. Just curious.

 

[SunnyCalifornia]

I really resent people calling green legged birds a cull. My green legged bird scored higher than 99% of all the other birds at the last show, second only to his brother. They still fit both standards, ASA, and SCNA right now. Unless there have been recent changes to the standard, I don't recall any color restrictions. I'd keep a green legged bird with good type over a yellow legged bird with bad type any day.

I just call them Seramas. If its an ABA/APA show, I leave my green beans at home. If its tabletop, I bring out all my colors. You just follow the rules for whatever show you're doing, and who cares what they are called. Its about having fun, and enjoying these sweet little birds.

 

[Laingcroft]

You just follow the rules for whatever show you're doing, and who cares what they are called. Its about having fun, and enjoying these sweet little birds.

Makes sense to me. I'm going to call mine Serama to anyone who asks

Not likely to do much showing in my neck of the woods though. Already have my hands full with bunny shows and not too many Serama folks up this way --- just three or four folks who have them as pets --- so table top shows are probably out of the question altogether.

 

[Memphisjourney2seramas]

I agree completely sunny cali!

 

[ChickenRfun257]

A serama is a serama I don't care about any of the drama. I will show at any show ASA SCNA ABCD I dont care, im in the serama to promote the breed and to get it popular within 4h and FFA as it is a fun breed to have. I am on SCNA yes but have no problem with ASA or any other clubs that pop up. I will continue to show my birds at any show I have access to and will continue promoting the serama in a positive matter throughout. The serama brings the best and the worst out in people, it seems like some take it in a positive matter and some act in a negitive matter towards it. I don't know why that is but it is that way in my opinion.

Now on to traditional and American
I personally breed for Malaysians as thats what got me attracted to this breed in the first place. The malays are fun to watch and have outstanding attitude. Again I also breed americans and have white,black,blue and barred projects going. I just wanted to state my opinion on this whole thing.

 

[SunnyCalifornia]

A serama is a serama I don't care about any of the drama. I will show at any show ASA SCNA ABCD I dont care, im in the serama to promote the breed and to get it popular within 4h and FFA as it is a fun breed to have. I am on SCNA yes but have no problem with ASA or any other clubs that pop up. I will continue to show my birds at any show I have access to and will continue promoting the serama in a positive matter throughout. The serama brings the best and the worst out in people, it seems like some take it in a positive matter and some act in a negitive matter towards it. I don't know why that is but it is that way in my opinion.

Now on to traditional and American
I personally breed for Malaysians as thats what got me attracted to this breed in the first place. The malays are fun to watch and have outstanding attitude. Again I also breed americans and have white,black,blue and barred projects going. I just wanted to state my opinion on this whole thing.

Bravo!! The politics only spoil the fun.

 

[ChickenRfun257]

Yes Chaili BTW its Jacob