Training a dog after it's killed several more than once? Possible?

[Andy J]

Kimb,the dog is doing just fine,due to my "poor skills" in training him not to kill chickens.I do like the dog and he's got it made.All he does is lay around and sleep and eat all day,while I have to work for a living.

Just wait until a dog kills one of your precious chickens,you'll be singing a different song.You probably don't have a dog.

"And God blessed them.and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply,and replenish the earth,and subdue it:and have dominion over the fish of the sea,and over every fowl of the air,and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth" Genesis 1:28

 

[dntd]

I personally feel when dog attacks a chicken/pet rat/cat it's the dogs instincts, I wouldn't even let my puppy who is well trained so far alone with them! Some dogs are good at chicken watching but most do and will kill a chicken eventually, that's why when you buy dog licsence it used to go into a fund for people who lost thier livestock to dog attacks( at least that's the story I got from our local humane society). Herding dogs were ment to herd large animals like sheep not small birds which one nip could do major damage, also the flightyness of chickens will encourage a dog to go into pray/play mode. Easy fix, build A frames for you chickens so that you can move them around the yard safely.

 

[ChickieBonBon]

I have two dogs (lab and a newfie) and I am currently working with them and the new chicks.

It takes time, but you need to reward them when they leave the chicks alone. Both dogs know the "leave it" command which has helped. I would disagree with the negative training and suggest positive reinforcement. Having worked with several trainers and behavior specialists, positive is the way to go. Dogs are supposed to retain the positive outcome of a behavior more than remembering that you beat them with a dead chicken. (Can't say I was never driven to negative punishment...) Trainers have told me that if you smack a dog with a shoe for example, he/she will not always associate that with not chewing shoes but with you smacking him/her. Hitting your dog, in my opinion, is never a good idea anyway. We used the positive training methods with the dogs and our new kitten a year ago and it has worked wonderfully. (Granted, the kitty had teeth and claws which probably helped

I am not a fan of Cesar Milan, but I did see an episode of his show in which he worked with a family's chicken killing dog. It is on youtube. At the end of the show the dog left the chickens alone

Good luck!!

 

[arcatamarcia]

I don't think the options are only tie the dog all the time, or contain the chickens all the time. Why not tie the dog part of the time and contain the chickens part of the time? You could tie the dog up when the chickens are free ranging, and contain the chickens when the dog is loose. Seems a lot easier than trying to teach a dog to go against thousands of years of instinct.

 

[cparian]

You can rehabilitate a former chicken killer the key to the whole thing is you & your family!, not the dog. You need to take a good look at the situation & decide if you are up for the time, training, & dilligence it will take to get it done. This isn't something you can be gung ho on one day & too busy other days to deal with. I know, I rehabilitated one former chicken killer, prevented another from ever becoming one, & helped my great pyrenese to learn her job. It took dedication, constant repetition & constant enforcement. The former chicken killer will now not touch the cats, goats or chickens but will still kill racoon, opossum, & snakes. So in my opinion that alone was worth the effort I had to made to keep him.

In your original post I really didn't get the feeling you are up for this & have already kinda decided about rehoming him. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against that, it may be what is in the best interest for both of you. I believe you need to really think about what you truly are up for/ have time to deal with & decide what to do from there.

 

[kimb]

Andy,
I apologize for caring about the welfare of all animals ... your post sounds like you don't like it - actually you state you wanted to shoot it!

And yes, I've had 2 of my late dogs and 1 of my present dogs manage to get a hold of chickens (i've lost count to how many i've lost from DOGS (mine own and neighbors) ... it is disheartening for sure - I love all my animals, but I'd never blame a dog for reacting on instinct when I (or anyone else) never taught it other wise. But I also have my herding dog that has never killed, nor had the desire to kill (whether she figured out on her own she didn't want to cause them harm, or it was my training - I may never know, but I'll throw up the flag and call it a draw on both our parts)...

AND just last week, my sister stopped by with her dog (pittbull X ) who came out to visit - plowed through my flock and when one lone startled girl took flight - OFF he went, and had her pinned to the fence in seconds - my heart dropped, I grabbed the dog by the collar and pulled him back (he could've easily killed her in those few seconds - she's a lucky girl, and I am grateful)... but it's not his fault that my sister won't take the time to train him around the chickens - she puts a shock collar on him and dares him to move (IMO that's NOT training that's abuse!)...

I know how it feels ! but animals will be animals...

 

[Siler]

Everyone has their own opinions that's for sure. First and foremost a Border Collie is a working breed and you can't undo generations of breeding and genetics. It was bred to herd larger animals...sheep mainly. If you want to keep the dog then you have to give it something to herd and drain it's energy on a daily basis. It will just get frustrated otherwise. It must be exercised daily. An old dog can indeed be taught new tricks if you're willing to put in the time. The "leave it alone" methods with positive reinforcement is what will work best, but in the end instinct will always be at the front of it's mind. Seeing chickens run and move fast will trigger the instinct and it's hard to stop the dog's next move without being right there or with an E-collar to just change the thought it has in his head at that very moment.

The dog owner in the episode of Dog Whisperer mentioned was John Grogan, author of Marley & Me. This was the dog he got after having the infamous Marley. I saw the episode after I got my chickens and my Lab mix was then 2yrs old. I had read Cesar's books while training my dog and this story helped me in his training. I worked non-stop with the "leave it" command and gave him plenty of positive reinforcement. He has never harmed any of my girls and they will lay with him in the yard around 5pm. My dog is also half Pitt Bull and the instinct to kill is strong, but the Lab tends to take over sometimes and he tries to pick up the duck and bring him to me. This is not something I want so I reinforce the "leave it" command a lot.

Retraining your Border Collie will take a lot of effort every day. If you're willing to put in the work then it can be done. Good luck!

 

[AHappychick]

Quote:
yes I was going to say the same thing I heard this is sometimes the only way to get them to stop. Personally I dont think short of something extreme like that will work as it is in the dogs instinks to kill the chooks. So sorry about your loss.

 

[AHappychick]

Quote:
I dont think Any does not care for the welfdare of Animals I just think he values his chickens more than the dog (or at least when he is mad) he did not shoot it and really does not sound like he abused the dog (I dont consider beating with the lifeless body of a chicken as reall abuse) On the other hand you keep loosing chickens to dogs so you obviously value their lives more and their desire to attack chooks as if its ok because dogs will be dogs. You said you lost count so it must happen pretty often. I am not saying you are wrong, or that he is, just that you both have different values for your flocks.

 

[kimb]

Quote:
I should clarify that the first 2 dogs that took the lives of our chickens where in my childhood years <12 yo's, I had no power over my parents choice of dogs, training or chicken management (which IMO was not the way in which I choose to keep & train my animals today) I used them as a reference to ensure I know the value and hardship of chicken's life lost... The most recent dog (we acquired 6+ years ago) - quickly became "my" dog because no one wanted to work with an ACTIVE and untrained gsd/lab X ... we got her at 1 yo (told she was good with all animals) and while out on her runner a few days later - caught a chicken that came too close - until then we didn't realize/know she had any desire to eat them (they always stayed away and she never seemed bothered) ... Today, she stays in her fenced in portion of the yard and the chickens are happy to roam wherever they may

(try telling the dog that I value her life over the chickens)...

My ACD (mine & soley my dog) has never harmed any of my chicks! (so we haven't lost a chicken to a 'family owned' dog in 6 years) ... that "unknown number of losses" includes neighbors dogs as the culprits ... none of our dogs ever got the chance to kill more than once. (and IMO that was 1x too many).

I wouldn't say I value the life of one animal above another! my chickens are just as important to me as my dog, as my cat, as my horses and even my turtles- and receive the same excellent care!

BUT I do give first rights to the animal that was here first, should they prove to be impossible to manage together (although I firmly believe that if you take on the responsibility of a life (outside of your own) chicken or dog or any other animal life, that it is - from that moment on, through thickness & thin your responsibility to exhaust all efforts to care for and manage those lives). I don't believe animal lives should be disposable - regardless of their actions, and especially if they're reacting on instinct and haven't been taught otherwise ...

... I think a dog acting on impulse and instinct to kill is ENTIRELY different than a human acting on emotions & anger ... imo beating is beating ... whether it's your hand or a dead chicken the intent is to cause harm & fear ( . ) and no being great or small deserves to feel deliberate pain and fear ! I just can't justify an exception to this.

But you're correct - there is always going to be a difference of opinion.