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- #11
Training help my dog won't get motivated grrrr
- Thread starter Horsefly
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Quote:
Well, the dog should follow the alpha no matter what. As in when I take my dogs somewhere that they can be off leash, I can "guide" wher they go just by where I go. The person chasing the dog is NOT leading the dog. The leader goes and the dog follows.
However, both of my dogs are bonded to me more than each other. I think partly the problem is that your dog just isn't interested in what you are trying to do, that makes it harder, and then your dog is not very bonded to you. The dog is probably VERY bonded to the other dog, more than they are to you. Still, the dog should do as you ask because you ask. That's a big *should* though
Your problem makes me think of this article http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/39/97/
Well, the dog should follow the alpha no matter what. As in when I take my dogs somewhere that they can be off leash, I can "guide" wher they go just by where I go. The person chasing the dog is NOT leading the dog. The leader goes and the dog follows.
However, both of my dogs are bonded to me more than each other. I think partly the problem is that your dog just isn't interested in what you are trying to do, that makes it harder, and then your dog is not very bonded to you. The dog is probably VERY bonded to the other dog, more than they are to you. Still, the dog should do as you ask because you ask. That's a big *should* though
Your problem makes me think of this article http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/39/97/
- Mar 20, 2008
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She might be bored. At home I keep training sessions down to 15 minutes. I know it's different in class because the class runs longer than the 15 minutes. My instructor used to mix things up and throw in something new to keep the dogs attention. Even during basic classes halfway through she would bring out a tunnel for the dogs to go through or a bridge to cross.
Are you bringing up the pitch in your voice to praise her? I had to learn to be more animated with my praise. I never used treats. I take that back. On the way home we would stop at McDonalds for burgers for the dogs.
Are you bringing up the pitch in your voice to praise her? I had to learn to be more animated with my praise. I never used treats. I take that back. On the way home we would stop at McDonalds for burgers for the dogs.
Quote:
I was really scratching my head until I go to the portion that I highlighted in bold.
While I cannot see your dog or situation with my own eyes, the information you provided there says a whole lot. Raising two puppies together has a lot of downfalls. Often-- and I think this is EXACTLY where your problem comes from-- you will see one puppy that will bond with the human portion of the pack and the other puppy will bond mostly with the other puppy. OR it can be doubly difficult where both dogs don't bond with the family and only rely ON EACHOTHER instead of the rest of the pack. This is why I always warn people who tell me they want two pups at once.
Lizzies problem seems to lie in that she has never had the real chance to bond with you, she doesn't get her needs met from you. So, in her mind, she has no NEED or DESIRE to really engage or respond to you once she is bored with the training.
On another level, she most definately has not LEARNED to respond to you through that bond that many of us experience with our dogs. She lives outside, with her brother. To her that is all the pack she needs, and more importantly is all the pack she KNOWS and understand how to respond to.
Her behavior towards you isn't stubborness or even boredom. Its a lack of any pack infastructure that would otherwise naturally assist her training, the desire to please and so on. Lizzie has no idea how to engage with you beyond what she knows of you playing with and feeding her. She has no need to because she has what she needs: her brother as her pack and what she is comfortable with.
If you want a relationship with your dogs I would start by seperating them, start building a relationship with them, make them part of your family. Without building a pack relationship with her she will not see the reason she should engage you in training or otherwise. You can train her on a shallow level and have her respond to you but the training won't stick unless you dig deeper and give her what she needs. In return she will give you what you give--repsonsive relationship.
I was really scratching my head until I go to the portion that I highlighted in bold.
While I cannot see your dog or situation with my own eyes, the information you provided there says a whole lot. Raising two puppies together has a lot of downfalls. Often-- and I think this is EXACTLY where your problem comes from-- you will see one puppy that will bond with the human portion of the pack and the other puppy will bond mostly with the other puppy. OR it can be doubly difficult where both dogs don't bond with the family and only rely ON EACHOTHER instead of the rest of the pack. This is why I always warn people who tell me they want two pups at once.
Lizzies problem seems to lie in that she has never had the real chance to bond with you, she doesn't get her needs met from you. So, in her mind, she has no NEED or DESIRE to really engage or respond to you once she is bored with the training.
On another level, she most definately has not LEARNED to respond to you through that bond that many of us experience with our dogs. She lives outside, with her brother. To her that is all the pack she needs, and more importantly is all the pack she KNOWS and understand how to respond to.
Her behavior towards you isn't stubborness or even boredom. Its a lack of any pack infastructure that would otherwise naturally assist her training, the desire to please and so on. Lizzie has no idea how to engage with you beyond what she knows of you playing with and feeding her. She has no need to because she has what she needs: her brother as her pack and what she is comfortable with.
If you want a relationship with your dogs I would start by seperating them, start building a relationship with them, make them part of your family. Without building a pack relationship with her she will not see the reason she should engage you in training or otherwise. You can train her on a shallow level and have her respond to you but the training won't stick unless you dig deeper and give her what she needs. In return she will give you what you give--repsonsive relationship.
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- Sep 28, 2008
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I can offer this... We had agility training for our dogs and my Pekapoo was very unmotivated and hard to stay on task.. I made the dog work for his food... He was never hungry so he never had a reason to try.. When I took away his food bowl and started using real meat for treats... the game changed... If I want him to focus on my face...I hold the treat in my mouth.... Treats are a good jumping off point but later in his training praise will work just as well. Consistancy is the key.. Be a strong leader and be fair. Emu treats or Duck... They are wonderful treats for a dog that cant get inspired by the menu... I used Roast beef for reallly hard things... The more difficult the ask... the more rewarding the treat.
Jamie, so true.
The moment I saw that 2 puppies were adopted and still live together, I said "bingo".
Separate the puppies. I would crate the one you are taking to training for several hours before training time.
I no longer use punishment in training such as prong collars, etc. I would encourage you to go to YouTube and watch some of Kikopup's vids on how positive reinforcement works in training.
The moment I saw that 2 puppies were adopted and still live together, I said "bingo".
Separate the puppies. I would crate the one you are taking to training for several hours before training time.
I no longer use punishment in training such as prong collars, etc. I would encourage you to go to YouTube and watch some of Kikopup's vids on how positive reinforcement works in training.
Quote:
Exactly....
I was really scratching my head until I go to the portion that I highlighted in bold.
While I cannot see your dog or situation with my own eyes, the information you provided there says a whole lot. Raising two puppies together has a lot of downfalls. Often-- and I think this is EXACTLY where your problem comes from-- you will see one puppy that will bond with the human portion of the pack and the other puppy will bond mostly with the other puppy. OR it can be doubly difficult where both dogs don't bond with the family and only rely ON EACHOTHER instead of the rest of the pack. This is why I always warn people who tell me they want two pups at once.
Lizzies problem seems to lie in that she has never had the real chance to bond with you, she doesn't get her needs met from you. So, in her mind, she has no NEED or DESIRE to really engage or respond to you once she is bored with the training.
On another level, she most definately has not LEARNED to respond to you through that bond that many of us experience with our dogs. She lives outside, with her brother. To her that is all the pack she needs, and more importantly is all the pack she KNOWS and understand how to respond to.
Her behavior towards you isn't stubborness or even boredom. Its a lack of any pack infastructure that would otherwise naturally assist her training, the desire to please and so on. Lizzie has no idea how to engage with you beyond what she knows of you playing with and feeding her. She has no need to because she has what she needs: her brother as her pack and what she is comfortable with.
If you want a relationship with your dogs I would start by seperating them, start building a relationship with them, make them part of your family. Without building a pack relationship with her she will not see the reason she should engage you in training or otherwise. You can train her on a shallow level and have her respond to you but the training won't stick unless you dig deeper and give her what she needs. In return she will give you what you give--repsonsive relationship.
Exactly....
I was really scratching my head until I go to the portion that I highlighted in bold.
While I cannot see your dog or situation with my own eyes, the information you provided there says a whole lot. Raising two puppies together has a lot of downfalls. Often-- and I think this is EXACTLY where your problem comes from-- you will see one puppy that will bond with the human portion of the pack and the other puppy will bond mostly with the other puppy. OR it can be doubly difficult where both dogs don't bond with the family and only rely ON EACHOTHER instead of the rest of the pack. This is why I always warn people who tell me they want two pups at once.
Lizzies problem seems to lie in that she has never had the real chance to bond with you, she doesn't get her needs met from you. So, in her mind, she has no NEED or DESIRE to really engage or respond to you once she is bored with the training.
On another level, she most definately has not LEARNED to respond to you through that bond that many of us experience with our dogs. She lives outside, with her brother. To her that is all the pack she needs, and more importantly is all the pack she KNOWS and understand how to respond to.
Her behavior towards you isn't stubborness or even boredom. Its a lack of any pack infastructure that would otherwise naturally assist her training, the desire to please and so on. Lizzie has no idea how to engage with you beyond what she knows of you playing with and feeding her. She has no need to because she has what she needs: her brother as her pack and what she is comfortable with.
If you want a relationship with your dogs I would start by seperating them, start building a relationship with them, make them part of your family. Without building a pack relationship with her she will not see the reason she should engage you in training or otherwise. You can train her on a shallow level and have her respond to you but the training won't stick unless you dig deeper and give her what she needs. In return she will give you what you give--repsonsive relationship.
- Jan 12, 2010
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I was going to suggest the same as Jamie, seperate the dogs. The only company she should have is you. Take her with you where ever possible. She needs to be dependant/bonded to you, not her brother. Make her earn everything... if she doesn't preform, maybe she doesn't eat a meal. I would only allow her to play with him for a short time after a good training session.
If you are teaching the dog something new you shouldn't be correcting him yet, just continue teaching and re enforce what you want him to learn with food and praise every time he gets closer to doing what you want. Once he learns what you want and then he refuses to do it, then the correction should follow immediatly. Your timing for praise and correction must be spot on. The dog will learn quickly. When you praise, don't be flat in your voice, sound excited.
I like to mix play and training. Play is the time where he can release any frustration he has. If the dog turns away from you while training this is a form of avoidance. I would give a quick correction immediatly when he looks away from you, and continue with the training.
Corrections with the collar shouldn't be a bunch of little half hearted shakes on the collar, but one firm snap with a firm verbal no. How do you have the prong collar fitted on the dog? It should be snug (not tight) on the neck and positioned at the base of the skull. The collar is ineffective if it has too much play.
Patience will be your greatest allie!
If you are teaching the dog something new you shouldn't be correcting him yet, just continue teaching and re enforce what you want him to learn with food and praise every time he gets closer to doing what you want. Once he learns what you want and then he refuses to do it, then the correction should follow immediatly. Your timing for praise and correction must be spot on. The dog will learn quickly. When you praise, don't be flat in your voice, sound excited.
I like to mix play and training. Play is the time where he can release any frustration he has. If the dog turns away from you while training this is a form of avoidance. I would give a quick correction immediatly when he looks away from you, and continue with the training.
Corrections with the collar shouldn't be a bunch of little half hearted shakes on the collar, but one firm snap with a firm verbal no. How do you have the prong collar fitted on the dog? It should be snug (not tight) on the neck and positioned at the base of the skull. The collar is ineffective if it has too much play.
Patience will be your greatest allie!
i woudl also like to add that it doesnt sound like an "alpha" issue (soemthing thats become all TOO popular with milans rise to fame *rolls eyes* ) she avoids eye contact completly thats tyrpicaly a sigh of apeasment and lack of confidence...
it does however sound like shes bored. try mixing it up a little, if she doesnt seem interested in sitting try something new, training sessions are best when kept short, fun and ALWAYS ended on a GOOD note
it does however sound like shes bored. try mixing it up a little, if she doesnt seem interested in sitting try something new, training sessions are best when kept short, fun and ALWAYS ended on a GOOD note
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- #20
Wow what yall say makes alot of sence. I had been suspecting for awhile that she wasn't really bonded with us. I don't have the facilities to seperate them totally but would it help to just keep Lizzie on a leash with me for a couple days whenever I am home? I would be willing to try this as long as I can talk my Mom into letting an animal in the house *gasp lol.
Not to sound like I am bragging or something I am really experianced in reward training and seem to have the right touch with animals. I ground train horses and know how to give the release and praise. I'm for giving the animal a chance to work out what I want and let them experinemt before giving corrections, I think they learn faster that way.
Not to sound like I am bragging or something I am really experianced in reward training and seem to have the right touch with animals. I ground train horses and know how to give the release and praise. I'm for giving the animal a chance to work out what I want and let them experinemt before giving corrections, I think they learn faster that way.
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