Treadle feeder problem

[4tenaya]

Hi, I have 6 chicks ages 5 to 7 weeks old. They have had problems with their feeders from the start. Currently, with the Rent-a-Coop treadle feeder wide open they will not eat from it. It's been 2 days in the coop with the treadle feeder. They jump up on it and have no problem standing on the open level. The problem is they won't stick their heads in to peck the food. Previous to this feeder, they would not peck hard enough to have a basic plastic round feeder drop the starter feed. I'm at a loss. I've had two other flocks that never had these problems. See attached pics.

Thank you!

 

[NetherLeeFarm]

I don't have your feeder but I have the Grandfather treadle, and those might be a little young for a treadle feeder. I've used it on chicks this age but it's been more accidental - for example, the chicks learned to run onto the feeder and grab some bites while an adult hen was using it. I tend to not move my girls fully onto the treadle feeder until they're about 10-12 weeks old.

Do you have the cover propped open to train them? If not, they may be afraid of it coming down on them so they're hesitant to stick their head in?

I'm not familiar with the other type of feeder that you have tried. I can train my chicks to a nipple waterer very young, but it may take a bit more force and gumption to activate an automatic feeder. However, if you've not had another flock that's struggled to do so, I'm not sure what could be going on here.

Real pictures of your chicks with the feeder may help us share advice.

Edited to add: Oh and welcome to BYC!

 

[Al Gerhart]

They are a bit young to use a guillotine style feeder like the Rent a coop feeder but if their weight is enough to raise the lid, it is just the fear of that overhead lid that is stopping them.

And I don't blame them. Imagine your front door hung sideways and you having to step on a treadle and lean in under the door to eat. You might pause at that ....

Maybe they have experienced the lid dropping when one of them jumps off, might take two or three to raise the lid and they just don't trust the feeder.

If it were me, I'd use a different feeder or let them eat with the larger birds when they can until they are big enough to operate on their own. Blocking open one of those guillotine style feeders is always a bad idea as it teaches the flock that the lid isn't supposed to move when they step on the treadle. And three week of open feeder when most people bought the contraption trying to solve a rodent problem.

The real purpose of a three week open feeder training period is to get you past the 30 day Amazon return period. After three weeks you remove the training bolt, find out your flock refuses to use the feeder, and you might mess with it a few more weeks before becoming frustrated and trying to return it. Most people are so nice, they blame themselves, and the 30 day return window is past.

Don't buy these old design feeders. Twice the cost, half the feeder, made in China, good luck ever finding parts once they need them.

 

[4tenaya]

I don't have your feeder but I have the Grandfather treadle, and those might be a little young for a treadle feeder. I've used it on chicks this age but it's been more accidental - for example, the chicks learned to run onto the feeder and grab some bites while an adult hen was using it. I tend to not move my girls fully onto the treadle feeder until they're about 10-12 weeks old.

Do you have the cover propped open to train them? If not, they may be afraid of it coming down on them so they're hesitant to stick their head in?

I'm not familiar with the other type of feeder that you have tried. I can train my chicks to a nipple waterer very young, but it may take a bit more force and gumption to activate an automatic feeder. However, if you've not had another flock that's struggled to do so, I'm not sure what could be going on here.

Real pictures of your chicks with the feeder may help us share advice.

Edited to add: Oh and welcome to BYC!

Thank you. I read your response and took the rain cover off and observed. Shortly after they began eating from it, but then they got scared when another chick would jump on the top. I added 2 cones to the top and came back to observe. No chicks jumping on top. The young chicks are getting the hang of it.

I may have an older chick that is very hesitant and that may be why the flock has been having problems. Just a theory.

I snapped pictures of the feeders they have had problems with in the brooder. This flock will not stick their heads in far enough to peck the food. I tried to entice them by spooning in enough food to get them started, but they never figured it out. I switched a standard feeder (second picture) both with and without the harness to hang the feeder. The waste was much worse with the harness. To reduce waste, I put the feeder in a corner where they could have access to 4 of the holes, but the food would not drop down to refill the holes. I had to bang the feeder throughout the day to get the food to drop.

 

[4tenaya]

They are a bit young to use a guillotine style feeder like the Rent a coop feeder but if their weight is enough to raise the lid, it is just the fear of that overhead lid that is stopping them.

And I don't blame them. Imagine your front door hung sideways and you having to step on a treadle and lean in under the door to eat. You might pause at that ....

Maybe they have experienced the lid dropping when one of them jumps off, might take two or three to raise the lid and they just don't trust the feeder.

If it were me, I'd use a different feeder or let them eat with the larger birds when they can until they are big enough to operate on their own. Blocking open one of those guillotine style feeders is always a bad idea as it teaches the flock that the lid isn't supposed to move when they step on the treadle. And three week of open feeder when most people bought the contraption trying to solve a rodent problem.

The real purpose of a three week open feeder training period is to get you past the 30 day Amazon return period. After three weeks you remove the training bolt, find out your flock refuses to use the feeder, and you might mess with it a few more weeks before becoming frustrated and trying to return it. Most people are so nice, they blame themselves, and the 30 day return window is past.

Don't buy these old design feeders. Twice the cost, half the feeder, made in China, good luck ever finding parts once they need them.

@Al Gerhart What kind of feeders do you recommend?

 

[Al Gerhart]

@Al Gerhart What kind of feeders do you recommend?

Treadle feeders, of course. But pick one that has an inward swinging door for safety and to avoid the three week open feeder "training" period. No plastic parts of course that rats will chew though. And a narrow and distant treadle works far better than a close in wide treadle. No holes punched in the treadle step, they cut toes. A narrow treadle allows a chicken to grasp the treadle naturally, like a roosting bar.

On the red and white plastic feeder, the design flaw is that chickens are prey animals, eyes on the side of the head and very quick reflexes, constant jerking of the head to detect motion and to view their blind spots directly ahead and behind them. Chicken hate sticking their head into an enclosed space to eat, 90% of their vision is gone. Even with a treadle feeder they lose some sight picture but it is far less. You might try cutting the plastic out between the two elbows, making one wide opening so the hen can center herself and see a little bit more behind her.

Another thought, you removed the rain cover, that was the second slab of sheet metal above the lid, correct? Did that not stop the chicks from hopping on top the lid? Adding the cones was a brilliant idea. I can see something like cardboard working well for short term. And cones, not a tent like thing with a ridgeline that chicks might try to perch on.

 

[NetherLeeFarm]

Thank you. I read your response and took the rain cover off and observed. Shortly after they began eating from it, but then they got scared when another chick would jump on the top. I added 2 cones to the top and came back to observe. No chicks jumping on top. The young chicks are getting the hang of it.

I may have an older chick that is very hesitant and that may be why the flock has been having problems. Just a theory.

I snapped pictures of the feeders they have had problems with in the brooder. This flock will not stick their heads in far enough to peck the food. I tried to entice them by spooning in enough food to get them started, but they never figured it out. I switched a standard feeder (second picture) both with and without the harness to hang the feeder. The waste was much worse with the harness. To reduce waste, I put the feeder in a corner where they could have access to 4 of the holes, but the food would not drop down to refill the holes. I had to bang the feeder throughout the day to get the food to drop.

Honestly, this sounds a lot like normal chick antics. They're testing everything at this age but also little scaredy cats. I'd keep them off the top by using the cones and just leave it there. I feel pretty confident that they'll figure it out, but if you have older hens that are also afraid of it, that can certainly be infectious! The little ones will carefully watch the older ones and pick up a lot of cues from them.

They also may be a bit young for the stick-your-head in feeder. I wonder if it scares them because when they do that, they can't keep a lookout for predators at the same time. You know they don't need to worry about that, but they don't. That one also just may take some time. I've not used one of those, but I would think it would work better when they're older and can move in and out to grab food faster. And after they've gained confidence. Maybe try moving it to a place that might feel more secure for them?

And I get you with that plastic standard feeder. I hate those with a passion! I won't even use them in my brooder. All it does is make a mess, but this idea might be worth a shot: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/chick-feeder-no-waste.865378/

I hear what @Al Gerhart is saying and he's very knowledgeable, but I've been using GF treadle feeders for about 6-7 years and never had anything but fine experiences with the partially-open training technique. Also fine customer service with my GF feeders, although I ordered directly from them and not the big A. I had one arrive damaged one time, sent photos to them, and they immediately shipped another one. They didn't want the damaged one back so I donated it.

Idk if this helps, but this is the one I use until they're fully incorporated with the full grown hens: https://www.strombergschickens.com/poultry-supplies/turbo-8-lb-chick-feeder-single/ You'll want the lid also or fashion one. The lid that goes with it doesn't fit very securely so I also place a cone or scat mat on top of it. The feeder is pricey for what it is but lasts forever. I just raise it up onto blocks as the chicks grow.

 

[4tenaya]

Treadle feeders, of course. But pick one that has an inward swinging door for safety and to avoid the three week open feeder "training" period. No plastic parts of course that rats will chew though. And a narrow and distant treadle works far better than a close in wide treadle. No holes punched in the treadle step, they cut toes. A narrow treadle allows a chicken to grasp the treadle naturally, like a roosting bar.

On the red and white plastic feeder, the design flaw is that chickens are prey animals, eyes on the side of the head and very quick reflexes, constant jerking of the head to detect motion and to view their blind spots directly ahead and behind them. Chicken hate sticking their head into an enclosed space to eat, 90% of their vision is gone. Even with a treadle feeder they lose some sight picture but it is far less. You might try cutting the plastic out between the two elbows, making one wide opening so the hen can center herself and see a little bit more behind her.

Another thought, you removed the rain cover, that was the second slab of sheet metal above the lid, correct? Did that not stop the chicks from hopping on top the lid? Adding the cones was a brilliant idea. I can see something like cardboard working well for short term. And cones, not a tent like thing with a ridgeline that chicks might try to perch on.

This all makes perfect sense! Thank you. About your question: there is a small cover that they can hit their heads on and sometimes are jumping up onto when I reach into the coop. Interesting idea about the cardboard. I'll try it.

 

[4tenaya]

Honestly, this sounds a lot like normal chick antics. They're testing everything at this age but also little scaredy cats. I'd keep them off the top by using the cones and just leave it there. I feel pretty confident that they'll figure it out, but if you have older hens that are also afraid of it, that can certainly be infectious! The little ones will carefully watch the older ones and pick up a lot of cues from them.

They also may be a bit young for the stick-your-head in feeder. I wonder if it scares them because when they do that, they can't keep a lookout for predators at the same time. You know they don't need to worry about that, but they don't. That one also just may take some time. I've not used one of those, but I would think it would work better when they're older and can move in and out to grab food faster. And after they've gained confidence. Maybe try moving it to a place that might feel more secure for them?

And I get you with that plastic standard feeder. I hate those with a passion! I won't even use them in my brooder. All it does is make a mess, but this idea might be worth a shot: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/chick-feeder-no-waste.865378/

I hear what @Al Gerhart is saying and he's very knowledgeable, but I've been using GF treadle feeders for about 6-7 years and never had anything but fine experiences with the partially-open training technique. Also fine customer service with my GF feeders, although I ordered directly from them and not the big A. I had one arrive damaged one time, sent photos to them, and they immediately shipped another one. They didn't want the damaged one back so I donated it.

Idk if this helps, but this is the one I use until they're fully incorporated with the full grown hens: https://www.strombergschickens.com/poultry-supplies/turbo-8-lb-chick-feeder-single/ You'll want the lid also or fashion one. The lid that goes with it doesn't fit very securely so I also place a cone or scat mat on top of it. The feeder is pricey for what it is but lasts forever. I just raise it up onto blocks as the chicks grow.

Again, so much wonderful information. Thank you! Much appreciate the links. Both the hack for the dreaded feeder and the feeder you suggest look like game changers.