Two bird issues - bumblefoot and general failure to thrive

[mymonkeyshines]

Got some new birds rescued as surplus from a breeder. Two are having issues.

The first is fine behaviorally, but appears to have double bumblefoot. I pulled a hard dark scab off of one, but feeling around couldn't find a further kernel of infection in either of them. I've been doing epsom salt soaks + drawing salve for a week now and this is what it looks like. it is also in the middle of a molt and has feathered feet, so I'm not crazy about the foot always being bandaged and I'm worried it'll get some issues with the feathers that are trying to come in. finally, the toe in the last pic looks messed up - should I do anything with it? she still gets around fine.

https://imgur.com/a/4H1MS7F

I've never dealt with bumblefoot before so I'm not sure if I'm on the right track, if I should keep doing soaks, something else is necessary, or how I should proceed. Any guidance on that front is greatly appreciated.

The other bird just is failing to thrive. it is a very meek bottom of the pecking order bird. when it was outside, it wasn't really eating and mostly just stood crouched. I moved it into my basement and per advice of my state ag office, gave it a round of corid followed by a round of deworm. to begin with, it would just hunker wherever I set it, but at this point (about two weeks in) it seems to be walking about the room it is in, although still not the most energetic bird I've seen. It is small and there isn't a lot of meat on it. If I take it outside it tends to lock up and hunker, although it is very alert looking around. Part of me wonders if it is just totally overwhelmed as it came from cramped indoor conditions all its life. The ag office at this point says if it wasn't worms or cocci, it is probably a cancer or untreatable infection of the reproductive tract, but a necropsy is necessary to confirm. I can't keep it inside forever, but she seems to be slowly warming up there. I'm curious if anyone has experienced something similar and might have any advice on that front. How long should I wait before figuring it isn't going to get better and cull like the ag office recommended? They said give it a week after the wormer, but since it's moving around more than it used to I don't want to unnecessarily cull. this is day 2 after finishing the deworm.

any advice for either of these birds is appreciated.

 

[coach723]

Bumblefoot can be very slow to resolve sometimes, so persistence is needed. From what I can see, I would continue to do as you are doing, soaks, apply a topical ointment, wrap to keep it clean and dry. When bandaging feathered legs or feet just wrap the feathers the directioin they grow, and just tight enough to keep the bandaging in place. Co wrap works well since it will stick to itself but not to the feathers, and it stays on pretty well.
The wonky to looks like it may have been injured, broken, or had something wrapped around it at some point. It looks like it's healed and I would just leave it alone. Wonky toes are common and usually don't cause a problem.
For the other bird, it would be helpful if you could get a video of what she's doing, how she's acting. She may just be very stressed from being moved to a new place, she may be lonely, maybe missing the bird or birds she used to hang out with. Some birds just don't do well alone. If there is another bird she gets along with, it might be helpful to keep them together and see if it helps her. Do you know how old she is? Is she molting? Has she laid since you got her? It's also possible that more is going on, seeing would help.

 

[WingsysRoost]

Bumblefoot usually takes some time to get rid of completely. I would continue with treatment and just monitor any incoming feathers. If you would feel better not having the feet wrapped, I have a method that I have found effective for my birds that does not require wrapping, but it does require essential oils which I know not everyone is comfortable with.

I will leave it here for anyone who wants it - I mix together 42 drops of fractionated coconut oil, 7 drops of lavender essential oil, 7 drops of oregano essential oil, and 7 drops of tea tree essential oil. I apply to the feet once or twice per day, nothing else required. I usually hold the bird for about a minute just to let everything absorb, but this isn't required, especially if the bird doesn't like being held.

I'm not too sure about the toe, but so long as anything like scaly leg mites or an acute injury has been ruled out, it's likely an old injury that just healed like that. I would just monitor to see that it isn't causing any trouble.

For your other bird, it's hard to say. It could be nerves. Some birds really don't seem to handle change well, and that could be the case here. When you say it is small and doesn't have much on it, does it feel like it has some weight but just very light, or does it feel more like you're lifting nothing if you try to handle it? Will it take some sort of protein (raw or cooked egg yolk is really good at helping unwell birds put on weight; I've seen other people recommend fish as well, though haven't tried it myself)? If so, offering that would be a good start. If you have access to a scale, getting a starting weight and tracking daily would be a good idea, or even just lifting the bird daily and checking weight and body condition that way (it isn't as accurate, but should give you some idea if the bird is at least gaining). If offered egg or other protein daily, there should be noticeable weight increase within a week at most, in my limited experience. If not, this is a red flag that there is something not right. A video to see behavior would definitely be helpful here.

When one of my hens had cancer, she was very lethargic and walked around slowly with her head tucked into her shoulders; she was also very pale and her feathers did not look well-kept. She also had issues with laying. However, there are other issues that can cause these symptoms, many of them treatable.

Best of luck with your birds!

 

[mymonkeyshines]

Bumblefoot can be very slow to resolve sometimes, so persistence is needed. From what I can see, I would continue to do as you are doing, soaks, apply a topical ointment, wrap to keep it clean and dry. When bandaging feathered legs or feet just wrap the feathers the directioin they grow, and just tight enough to keep the bandaging in place. Co wrap works well since it will stick to itself but not to the feathers, and it stays on pretty well.
The wonky to looks like it may have been injured, broken, or had something wrapped around it at some point. It looks like it's healed and I would just leave it alone. Wonky toes are common and usually don't cause a problem.
For the other bird, it would be helpful if you could get a video of what she's doing, how she's acting. She may just be very stressed from being moved to a new place, she may be lonely, maybe missing the bird or birds she used to hang out with. Some birds just don't do well alone. If there is another bird she gets along with, it might be helpful to keep them together and see if it helps her. Do you know how old she is? Is she molting? Has she laid since you got her? It's also possible that more is going on, seeing would help.

Bumblefoot usually takes some time to get rid of completely. I would continue with treatment and just monitor any incoming feathers. If you would feel better not having the feet wrapped, I have a method that I have found effective for my birds that does not require wrapping, but it does require essential oils which I know not everyone is comfortable with.

I will leave it here for anyone who wants it - I mix together 42 drops of fractionated coconut oil, 7 drops of lavender essential oil, 7 drops of oregano essential oil, and 7 drops of tea tree essential oil. I apply to the feet once or twice per day, nothing else required. I usually hold the bird for about a minute just to let everything absorb, but this isn't required, especially if the bird doesn't like being held.

I'm not too sure about the toe, but so long as anything like scaly leg mites or an acute injury has been ruled out, it's likely an old injury that just healed like that. I would just monitor to see that it isn't causing any trouble.

For your other bird, it's hard to say. It could be nerves. Some birds really don't seem to handle change well, and that could be the case here. When you say it is small and doesn't have much on it, does it feel like it has some weight but just very light, or does it feel more like you're lifting nothing if you try to handle it? Will it take some sort of protein (raw or cooked egg yolk is really good at helping unwell birds put on weight; I've seen other people recommend fish as well, though haven't tried it myself)? If so, offering that would be a good start. If you have access to a scale, getting a starting weight and tracking daily would be a good idea, or even just lifting the bird daily and checking weight and body condition that way (it isn't as accurate, but should give you some idea if the bird is at least gaining). If offered egg or other protein daily, there should be noticeable weight increase within a week at most, in my limited experience. If not, this is a red flag that there is something not right. A video to see behavior would definitely be helpful here.

When one of my hens had cancer, she was very lethargic and walked around slowly with her head tucked into her shoulders; she was also very pale and her feathers did not look well-kept. She also had issues with laying. However, there are other issues that can cause these symptoms, many of them treatable.

Best of luck with your birds!

Thanks for the replies. Here's some videos I took:

https://imgur.com/a/nLNHpug

the first video shows it in its basement room. it isn't running all over the place, but it gets on the ladder to roost itself, gets food and water freely, and poops all over the place so it must be moving. a lot more signs of movement than when I first brought it in and it was entirely stationary. in the second video I put it in grass outside, and its reaction is pretty typical. It sits there and looks around. The third video I put it on the sidewalk to open the door and it seemed more lively on the concrete. to me that seems like a sign that it might just be totally scared and is a little more comfortable on more familiar concrete. very curious to see what you think though. thanks!

Another side note is that this bird is missing the claws on both its middle toes.

 

[WingsysRoost]

I would say, based off the fact that it really does become more lively when you switch the environment, it might just be really shut down from stress. I would give it some time and make sure to offer extra protein to help regain body condition.

Based off general behavior, I do think it might be a fear response. None of my birds that have been really, truly ill have ever been that alert. It could just be that a potential issue hasn't progressed that far yet; I would doubt it, though, if it is starting to move around more with time rather than less.

On the other hand, if you're offering supplementary protein and it is not gaining weight or is actually losing weight, or if it starts to show any other symptoms, that would be a sign that there is something else going on.

The other thing is that it might be a true failure to thrive, where something isn't right but there isn't really one definite issue that can be diagnosed. This doesn't mean that they can't survive, but they might require a bit of extra help to get to that point. This is true especially if it was getting picked on previously and didn't have as much access to food and water as the other chickens did.

I'm not sure about the toes. It might have hatched with them that way, or it might have been an injury of some sort. As long as there is no visible swelling or anything else that would indicate an active infection, it will likely be fine.

I hope this helps!

 

[coach723]

Can't see close up, but it appears that the tips of the toes are gone. Hard to say why, but it looks old, happened quite some time ago. Depending on housing, environmental conditions, etc, could have been an injury, frostbite, etc. It shouldn't cause a problem now.
In general, chickens don't like change, so that may be a lot of it. I moved a fence once. There was still a line in the grass where the old fence was, they would not cross the line. Would. Not. Eventually I had to physically place them all over the line, then they figured it out. Just an example of how resistant they can be to change.
I still think it might be a good idea to try to give her a companion that she gets along with. That may help a lot.
Do all the droppings she's leaving in the basement look normal?