Two out of 29, 8 week old White Holland turkey poults dead in three days - help needed!

[Shroppy]

We are raising 29 Holland White poults, now at 8 1/2 weeks of age (one poult was DOA from McMurray) and, quite suddenly, out of the blue, three days ago, I found one of the girls keeled over. No signs of sickness, no symptoms.

All were running, jumping, flying, drinking and eating the day before. They probably weigh 2-3 pounds each and currently they have a 10 ft x 5 ft, 8 foot high area right now for roosting at night, which has plenty of ventilation in the day as the door opens full height, and they are adjacent to the duck area which is very well ventilated with open, hardware cloth-covered sides. Up until the day after this poult died, we have had them on Sunrise Farms Turkey Starter Crumbles. They have just started on Sunrise Farm Broiler feed that we have been using for the Red Ranger chickens.

I have been adding Grapefruit Seed Extract to the water since the get-go. There is a large 3 gallon hanging waterer in their indoors area, two gallon waterers in their outdoors run, with a couple of bowls also. Their outdoors run is 60 ft x 15 ft x 7 ft high and is netted. They go outside for most of the day but with the heat I have been opening up the duck pen to the poults during the day, after the ducks go out to forage and their eggs have been collected; the poults spend the hottest part of the day here.

The plan has been that after our Red Ranger chickens have been butchered early next week, we will scrub their "hooch" out from top to bottom and transfer the turkeys into that. It is 160 square feet but now I am worried that 160 sq feet for the remaining 27 turkeys is not going to be big enough (half of the hooch is insulated but has ventilation and the other half is open to the air). They will be wing-clipped and free-ranging over 4 acres during the day. First question - and I will address everyone right now.. Is the current indoors area too small for them, ie 10 ft x 5 ft x 8 ft high? They can all get up onto the perches but do seem to crowd each other out. What would be the optimum sized amount of floor space for these birds? I CAN, at a pinch, extend the turkey's area into the duck pen (currently separated by a full height wood frame with door and plastic fencing). 22 laying ducks currently have 250 square feet there but we could temporarily extend another 50 square feet for the turkey poults.

Anyways, we opened up this poult and checked her for signs of sickness. All the organs seemed perfectly normal. Nice healthy liver and heart. No sign of blackspot. Hubby dressed her out for roasting, at least she won't go to waste (this girl weighed just 1 1/2 pounds once plucked and dressed). The chickens are kept separately about 50 yards away although they do free-range around the pen's perimeter. Then today, I went outside at 7 am and found one of the toms laid below the perches.. VERY recently dead. He was still very warm and limp. This has gotten me really worried. We HAVE had record hot weather.. temps hitting the high 80's and only dropping to 60 F at night.. a month ago we were breaking daily COLD weather records (crazy!) but the poults were still indoors under heat lamps at that stage. Could this be a crowding issue? Any other ideas on preventing more deaths will be VERY much appreciated!

 

[ivan3]

Have you turned turkeys out on this ground in previous years with no issue? How sodden are the duck digs that you turn the poults out into? (have yet to see a "dry" "duck run", but I haven't seen yours). Turkeys should be kept on dry ground, most of time, if possible.

If the ground is wet, gross in turkey run clean as best as possible and run box fans (just attach to outside of fences with a bit of rope through handle and around fencing) during hot part of day (even at 8.5 wks. ours hunker down in run along the path of the fan's "breeze" - highs in `90's) as fans will dry out any 'dampness".

Am assuming you've used same brand/type of feed for awhile and haven't had problems, that you've been using the "extract" added to water with no issues with other poultry, that the only time they are "crowded" is when they go to roost.

I'd suspect some mycotoxin (if spending time on wet ground): http://birdhealth.com.au/flockbirds/poultry/diseases/mould_infections.html

You might also consider worming: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/977744/graphic-photos-in-post-dead-poult#post_15294984 (Fenbendazole/Safeguard dose - not the Metronidazole).

 

[Shroppy]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, this is our first experience with turkeys which is why I though we were doing so well!

Other notes in response..we have had virtually no rain since we moved them to the far end of the duck pen so "soggy" has not been an issue in the run. The duck pen (palais du canard!) has been built above ground with up to 18 inch deep concrete footings. Layers of soil, then sand, then hardware cloth, then several tons of gravel over that, then plastic lattice over that means that it is free-draining. We deep litter successfully with straw for the ducks. On the turkey's end we have straw down over the plastic lattice. It remains very dry. The sides of the pen are made from dog kennel pannels covered with hardware cloth so the doors at each end are 6 ft high abd 5 ft wide. Clear tarpaulin panels on the outside act as weather protection and are rolled up in summer.

We also also add diatomaceous earth to their food and sprinkle it lightly over the bedding for fly and parasite control. It is remarkably effective at that! I add Milk Thistle extract to everyone's food as a counter to possible mycotoxin poisoning as well as keeping the food in a large

GSE has been used on my 50 Red Ranger chickens at the rate of 20 drops per gallon. I also use it on my cats. It has resolved the two year long herpes problem in one of my outdoors kitties and sorted out a cronic granular conjunctivitis in one of my Siamese that has been an issue since he was a kitten. I add it to the cat's water at 10 drops per gallon.

I truly believe that heat stroke was the issue.. and yes, as of last night we have doubled their pen size to 100 square feet by annexing 50 square feet of the duck pen. I feel much happier now! I have a fan in the chicken hooch, which draws fresh ar in from one end, and I have another one I am ready to set up in the turkey's area.


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The above pic is from the ducks' end of the pen.

The following pic is from the turkeys' end of the pen. The door opens to the west. I have now annexed an extra 50 square feet for them. The turkey's area has now been extended to the left, through the door, so the remaining turkeys now have 100 square feet to roost and feed. Six of them roosted on top of the door last night of course! I moved one of the 4 ft saw horses into the new area - they also perch on these during the day.



Below is their 60 ft x 15 ft outdoors west-facing/sloping run. You can see how dry everything is right now.



Any further ideas/thoughts will be much appreciated and I will definitely keep this thread updated from time to time!

 

[ivan3]

Thank you for providing the shots (nice setup). Temps in the `80's really shouldn't represent a stressor resulting in sudden mortality. Were the turks lying on ground, wings somewhat unfolded and all of them panting when temp was "spiking"? (usual response, here, when temp. hits 105° , or thereabouts).

Keep a close eye on them for any changes in behavior/droppings. I'd suggest performing a gross fecal exam: 1. take a bit of heavy white paper, place a dropping on it and use a Popsicle stick (or similar) to smear dropping as thin as possible over paper and examine with jewelry loupe (x30 is ideal) - observe for any fllament-like objects (more than one that appear exactly same diameter/length? Not good). Take another dropping and place in small, very clear glass container, with tight fitting lid, and add warm water. Shake until dissolved. Holding bottle up next to very bright light source and, again, use loupe to examine fluid - any thread-like/filament-like "material"? If so, treat entire flock of poultry for worms. ADE, added to feed as anything other than an "anticaking" agent (to keep feed from clumping) can be problematic in that large amounts can prevent the uptake of nutrients from feed and has no effect on internal parasites (very useful, in dry environments, for cutting down on those flies, etc).

If no change in behavior/droppings and you lose another suddenly (heaven forbid). Simplify "inputs" as completely as possible, i.e., no additives at all to food/water (would probably pick up a new bag of turkey starter, as well). Probably not "germane" but good to rule out completely. Really don't see any issues with your set-up and your finding nothing obviously unusual during necroscopies of those that died and that the temps (for most situations) weren't "that" high, is worrisome.

Hoping that "all" is now copacetic and this post is for naught.

Again, nice setup and the very best of luck!

 

[Shroppy]

Thanks tons Ivan3!

I am saving your reply in a file as it gives great info on faecal analysis. Hubby has a magnifying jeweller's visor for microscale warship ship modelling so that should do the trick! If I find any worm issues I will get right on to it.

The turkeys are loving the extra room for roosting. BTW we had recorded 93 F in the shade the days of the deaths. A couple days later when temps spiked, I checked the air temp in their pen in a shaded area with the sun bearing down and it was 103 F. That, together with the sun's strength this time of year (just a few weeks off the solstice) and latitude (central WV = central Spain = Sacramento) and the sun is one giant infra-red cooker.. it upsets me to think that this could probably have been prevented, but we will have a purpose built accommodations for them within a couple of months.

Re overheating, I know all about that. I have MS and also inherited Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy with Stage 2 to 3 heart failure, so and I have to wear an evaporative cooling vest AND a bag of crushed ice under my sun-hat to survive the sun this time of year!

This is our first run with turkeys and these creatures are utterly charming! I love their inquisitive nature, their friendliness, and those gorgeous blue eyes

You only have to sit in the pen for a couple of minutes and you have a poult in your lap, and one on each shoulder, pecking at your earrings -- they sure love bling!

QUESTION! We want to keep a tom and maybe 2-4 hens for breeding. Is there an ideal number we should be looking at?

Their new accommodations will be heavily insulated from top to bottom.. an 18 ft x 12 ft wood-sided shed with a 14 ft high roof that we are relocating from another part of the property. We recently completed a new chicken coop. This has 6 inches of foam insulation in the roof, 4 inches in the floor, and 4 inches in the walls. We have drop-down vents and opening windows in both doors. On the hottest days, it has peaked at only 73 F inside the coop so will probably require little or no heat in winter. That is my greenhouse and those are my two raised 16 ft x 4 ft planting beds beyond - fenced to keep the chickens out!



This is the chicken hooch for the Red Ranger meat chickens. It is 16 ft x 10 ft. The rear half is concrete, and the first 10 ft has insulating roll and is covered with a heavy duty tarpaulin. It has a fan running continuously, drawing fresh air in through a drop-down vent at the rear. The interior doors were closed in the early days as temps were dropping below zero at night. VERY pleased with this, and plan on building another one that will be 24 ft x 10 ft, once we have finished fencing in 5 of our 32 acres.

 

[ivan3]

Very nice setup!

Yes, one tom and 2-4 hens is pretty ideal.

 

[Shroppy]

One Tom and 4 Hens it is then!

Good news - turkeys are negative for parasites