two roosters father and son - 9month old son is now fighting

[PlentifulPrairie]

Hi! I have a problem that I have yet to have in my time of raising chickens.

I have a flock of 11. Two roosters. One rooster is about to turn 3 and he other is 9 months old (son to 3 year old rooster). My 3 year old rooster has been pretty good to the younger rooster. My younger rooster has become a pretty ruff with the older one. He chases him and pretty much will peck the crap out of him, even though the older rooster has completely submitted to him. I have been keep them separated during the day because i'm afraid that maybe it'll go too far and he'll kill my older roo. They sleep in the same coop after dark, i bring one of them in the coop myself after dark to avoid fighting and i get up early and take one of them out before there's enough light they naturally want to be up.

1. do you think the fighting will ever stop?
2. could i have another coop and just divide up my flock (there are 3 hens that are the same age as the roo/they are siblings and thats how i've been having them hangout during the day so far.) and fence them off from one another.
3. i'll take any advice, i don't really want to get rid of my younger roo because well i really care about him and i don't have someone that i know personally that would be able to take him... i don't want him to become chicken stew for someone or basically abandon him due to "buyers remorse".

thoughts?

 

[sourland]

I doubt that the abuse will stop. As a matter of fact, it will probably escalate. It's all about the DNA. The cockerel wants to make sure that his DNA is what gets to carry on. Separation of the flocks would work.

 

[Mrs. K]

They seldom go back to peaceful living, once they start fighting. Especially if you keep breaking it up and keeping them apart. It is kind of a '5 on one hand, 4 fingers and thumb on the other kind of deal.

If you don't separate them, they fight. If you separate them, they never solve the fight and have to start over the next time they are put together. If you leave them together, they may fight to serious injury or death. If you keep them apart - well there is always the chance they will get through the fencing and fight.

I like cock fighting worse than I like culling, so I would cull. I like a peaceful flock. It is a decision we each have to make on our own flocks. As AArt says, roosters are where the romance of keeping chickens meets reality.

 

[Shadrach]

It's madening isn't it. I've has similar with father and son, brothers and even grandchildren.

This has worked for me on the three occasions I've tried it and that is to build a seperate coop for, in your case, the retiring rooster.
But, these were in dawn to dusk ranging conditions and this makes an enormous difference. If the loser can run from aggression and act as a satalite rooster then while still a bumpy road, some kind of peace can be restored.
I've got a father 8 or 9 years old with a 6 month old son and only three hens who definitely prefer dad. Dad has been until recently very laid back regarding his son, mum taking most of the load. Now the sun is interested in the hens who are all laying. Dad bowls his son off the hens when he's quick enough and son has the comb wounds to show for it. The problem is these are mainly confined chickens and sufficient expansion of the coop and run to house possibly two tribes, depending whether the hens split, isn't a practical proposition.

Currently I'm letting them work it out. In the end I've found this best. It doesn't make a lot of difference who kills what has become the spare rooster, the keeper or another rooster. At best, the heart gives out and they keel over dead mid fight. At worst he dies fighting for his right to lead the tribe and even still amoung humans this is considered an honourable death.

I've watched such fights. I've patched up the losers. I've cried over the distress of it all.

My heart goes out to you. It's one more of those terrible choices we have to make as chicken keepers.
I will say this. If push comes to shove and one has to go, let the son go, not the father. He has proven he can reproduce. Not having read anything contrary he must get on with the hens. I gather he's okay with humans because you haven't mentioned otherwise. Fact is if the above is correct, you've got a good rooster. You don't really know anything about the son and in my experiece don't until they are eighteen months (approx) old.
Then you have the problem of will the hens accept the son. Chances are okay but any hen that wont accept the son are in for a rough time.


y but any hen that prefered the father

 

[Mrs. K]

I agree with Shadrach, a LOT depends on the situation, weather, predators, and luck.

The more confined, the smaller the space, the less likely it will work out. If you are in confinement, it probably is not going to work.

 

[Perris]

There's been a lot of good insight and advice above.

I speak as someone who currently has an old and wonderful roo in protective custody (his choice), three of his sons as 2nd, 3rd, and 5th roo living with and as part of one flock with 20-odd hens, and I used to have a grandfather roo (the old one's dad) who literally walked away after a couple of years as a satellite. All the subs past and present bar one (I'll get to him in a minute) have been able to live within the flock, because they free range dawn till dusk and when the dom asserts his authority, as he does periodically, they can run away. They roost where they choose among 4 Nestera coops positioned close to one another. (There are more roos than coops so there is always some sharing, without issue.) The one in protective custody (separate coop and enclosed run) was the dom until he got sick with something that affected his balance, and he can't outrun a pursuer. He's been living like this for 8 months now, and still crows in the morning, and generally shows he thinks life is still worth living, especially when one of the hens wants to join him for a bit, so I'm glad I didn't cull him, but I have the luxury of space and facilities to enable this and you might not have. In that case you can only cull or let nature work it out, with possible grievous injury to the survivor as well as lethal injury to the loser.

If you decide to cull, based on my experience I would cull the older roo. My old hens show a clear preference for the toy boys in the flock, once they have learned how to mate without falling off or pulling out head feathers. I think their instincts are for diversity and maximising the genetic mix in the different generations of their offspring.

 

[11th Hour Poultry]

Hi! I have a problem that I have yet to have in my time of raising chickens.

I have a flock of 11. Two roosters. One rooster is about to turn 3 and he other is 9 months old (son to 3 year old rooster). My 3 year old rooster has been pretty good to the younger rooster. My younger rooster has become a pretty ruff with the older one. He chases him and pretty much will peck the crap out of him, even though the older rooster has completely submitted to him. I have been keep them separated during the day because i'm afraid that maybe it'll go too far and he'll kill my older roo. They sleep in the same coop after dark, i bring one of them in the coop myself after dark to avoid fighting and i get up early and take one of them out before there's enough light they naturally want to be up.

1. do you think the fighting will ever stop?
2. could i have another coop and just divide up my flock (there are 3 hens that are the same age as the roo/they are siblings and thats how i've been having them hangout during the day so far.) and fence them off from one another.
3. i'll take any advice, i don't really want to get rid of my younger roo because well i really care about him and i don't have someone that i know personally that would be able to take him... i don't want him to become chicken stew for someone or basically abandon him due to "buyers remorse".

thoughts?

How much space do they have?

1. The fighting would stop if there was enough space, unless one of the roosters has a natural temperament to fight.

2. Dividing can be a great idea if you don't want to cull any of them.

3. Roosters can coexist if it's in their nature and they have enough hens and space. I have a rooster that when, free from confinement, in pasture will focus more on chasing and fighting younger roosters than he will on "paying attention" to females. Normally he would be a cull, but he has a trait that I need, so he is confined with other dominant roosters with enough hens that he can do his job.

4. Don't feel stuck in the way you keep chickens. You can always separate. You can always change something. You can always add more or make fewer if your flock isn't happy. You can always find a way. Make your flock happy any way you can, just don't let your flock make you unhappy or stressed. Your peace of mind is more important than keeping 1 of them off the dinner plate.

 

[wrathsfarm]

I have 2 separate flocks with 2 roos. It works...
I split free range time between each flock.

 

[16 and me]

I have a 6 month old roo in the "playpen". He is the 3rd attempt at a 2nd roo, and I suspect he will be culled soon. At 6 months he's already knocking the 3 year old Alpha off the hens, and then they fight - he always runs for cover, but comes right back the next time the Alpha tries to mate and it starts all over. A few of the hens are showing signs of stress - running and screeching when he rushes to mate them. I've separated him for now while I mull it over, but I hate to see him stressed out alone in a pen for what could be another year, and it could still end up with him being culled.

The flock of 14 hens is much more peaceful without him harassing them or the Alpha, who is a tried and true gentleman, always on duty watching over the flock. As he is aging though, I suspect his fertility rate will decrease, hence the desire for a 2nd roo. I may keep him around until summer giving him a few hens for a few hours a day, and hope for a cockerel in this year's brood, and see how that works out.