UGH Poop Staying on the Surface of Run. SO FRUSTRATED

[perchie.girl]

Ok you need the drainage of the gravel. The sand works great.... Rather than digging it all up how about putting down some heavy duty mulch cloth. Something that can be staked down Then build a border around the run at least six inches deep. Using the border to fasten down the cloth. (I have this stuff in my own yard and you have to cut it before you can dig a hole. A shovel will not go though. It is water permeable) Then put your sand over the top six inches deep.

Someone mentioned tons of sand.... I buy my sand by the cubic yard. A standard pickup truck will hold two cubic yards of sand. But Sand and gravel companies deliver. One cubic yard will fill fifty square feet six inches deep.

just some lateral thinking here.

 

[ScrambledGreg]

For my run, I just use bare ground - when the chickens have used it to the point that it hardens up and rain won't soak in anymore, or I notice a lot of manure on the surface, I use my roto-tiller to break up the ground and turn the soil. Have to do it every couple months or so.

 

[berkeleysprings]

ya just gotta clean ,like anything else in life , its work wether sand or dirt or any , just once a week u gotta clean ,chickens wont clean them selves unless its a dirt bath

 

[patandchickens]

Sand!!!

Ok, seriously: I suspect your basic problem boils down to the gravel not being something the chickens scratch around in much?

If it were me I would dump a bunch of sand on there (you CAN remove some of that great big gravel if you want it for another project, or if you don't want the run surface built up too high, but I do not think it's likely to matter much functionally). Yes, it will mix together, yes, that is fine.

And then, you may still have to do some cleaning. When you have only 12 sq ft of run space per chicken, you can't expect magic to happen, in many climates poo *will* accumulate and have to be removed. It's just, you know, basic animal husbandry, either give them a very very large area or expect to shovel some sh*t

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[2wheelterry]

ADozenGirlz, your coop is sooooo pretty!!!! Gives me lots of ideas about landscaping around mine.

 

[ChooksChick]

The major reason to not put sand on top of gravel is that if you don't put enough sand on top, they will become mixed and the gravel will always end up on top as the sand sifts down. A second reason is that you could have compaction as it sifts down, where the mix virtually becomes like concrete.

I agree that if you want to leave the gravel, a water permeable weed barrier and 6" of sand on top would be a great way to keep the drainage you've created without doing a ton of work.

I would encourage you to first spray the gravel with an enzyme mix for accelerating compost degradation- this is available in a box at most garden centers and nurseries for application with a hose sprayer- it will add tons of beneficial enzymes and bacteria to the area so that the poo layer already present will break down and you'll be able to leave it there. This is always a good move when doing run construction or maintenance due to drainage/stink issues.

I would also encourage you to put a boundary of treated wood around it as was mentioned, because if your run is higher than the surrounding area you will always have less of an issue with moisture and resulting stink. I do mix shavings, leaves, and fine mulch in with my sand for organic material, as it encourages some bugs and things the chooks can forage for, rather than them having a stark beach. I also recommend looking at Arianna's page about her run and her 'salad bars' for foraging.

Best of luck!

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
I suppose that could happen sometimes. Isn't my experience of how it tends to actually work though. You're going to have to add more sand periodically no matter how you slice it, because sand moves down or sideways or whatever. And 3/4" gravel plus sand doesn't, in my experience, become like concrete. (Only if you added something much finer, like stone dust).

I agree that if you want to leave the gravel, a water permeable weed barrier and 6" of sand on top would be a great way to keep the drainage you've created without doing a ton of work.

My chickens dig way deeper than 6" and a layer of weed barrier at that level would not last real long, it would get holes all ripped in it here and there.

I would encourage you to first spray the gravel with an enzyme mix for accelerating compost degradation- this is available in a box at most garden centers and nurseries for application with a hose sprayer- it will add tons of beneficial enzymes and bacteria to the area so that the poo layer already present will break down and you'll be able to leave it there.

If you want decomposer bacteria added (enzymes will not last, but bacteria can) just make a slurry of good garden soil in water (you can strain it before applying if you want) or aged-compost tea, and sluice that all over the area, does the exact same thing only for free

JME,

Pat​

 

[hokankai]

Hoo boy, now I'm confused. We don't have any aged compost for bacteria, is there another way I can get it? I'm assuming you're talking about nitrobacter and nitrosomal bacteria.

And yeah, they can't really scratch around in it too easily...which I think is one of the big problems.

Here are some pictures of our run so y'all know what I'm working with. Excuse the mess...oh wait...that's what this is about

Overview

This used to be the sand bath

Where it drains

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
You want my honest opinion? You totally 1000% do not even remotely need to worry about that. I was merely replying to an earlier poster who suggested you go buy things. The bottom line is that if the poo is on the surface it ain't gonna compost much, and if it is down in the ground then it will quite soon develop its own community of breakin'-things-down bacteria even if you add nothing whatsoever on purpose.

And yeah, they can't really scratch around in it too easily...which I think is one of the big problems.

I think that you will find that if you can loosen things up by adding finer material, conditions will improve somewhat. If it were me I would be highly tempted to go in there with a garden fork or, if necessary, a digging bar (I'd say 'rototiller' except I think it would be dangerous there) and try to loosen up that stuff as much as possible, leaving it very rough-turned with pits and holes all over, then dump at least 6" of coarse sand on and kind of fork it together to vaguely mix it. It won't make things worse and it may well make things better. If not better enough, then you may need to step up to a more intensive level of manual sanitation.

You might even, if you feel that moisture is not so much of a problem as simply the hardness of the ground and lack of scratching, want to add some wood chips in there. Preferably fairly coarse ones, like coarse mulch or tree-chippings from nontoxic trees. I know that sounds sort of backwards and indeed if you have a sogginess problem it might make it worse (which is why I say "might" want to), BUT if the problem is principally that your ground is hard like a rock it will help considerably to loosen it up and keep it more scratchable and freer-draining.

Excuse the mess...oh wait...that's what this is about

One other thing that would help somewhat would be to put a gutter and downspout on the coop roof that slopes into the run. You would be surprised how much difference that makes when the problem is wetness.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat​

 

[kuntrygirl]

This is an open run with sand. I don't have one single problem with my sand in the run. All I do is go in and scoop the poop. In Louisiana, it rains a lot and I don't have a problem with the sand washing away or sitting around in puddles.

The measurements are 28 feet long - 10 feet wide - 8 feet tall.

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