Undersized Chicks at 18 Weeks

[SmallStep]

I’m raising my second batch of babies. They’ve been on starter grower...free choice for 18 weeks. I’ve been using Bartlett’s. My chics are nowhere big enough to integrate with the four adults I have left from my first group that I got in 2016. I’ve also supplemented with grass, Swiss chard, earthworms when I find them. There are six chicks in a protected coop yard and I put them up every night because I have concerns that they are still small enough to be a black snake’s meal if one were to get through the chicken wire.
My neighbor has a batch a few weeks (at most) older than mine and hers are as big as full grown. You only know they’re pullets by the absence of wattle and much comb.
She got hers at the local farm store; I had mine shipped from McMurrey Hatchery in Iowa. I gave them electrolytes and probiotics.
Some of mine—the Red Stars—even have a little fuzz still on their heads. I got some leftover starter grower from my neighbor and gave them some as soon as I got home. They seem to like it but they like the Bartlett’s too. What in the world could be wrong? Help!

 

[HappyClucker7]

Are you sure you actually got the breeds you ordered, and you didn't accidentally end up with bantams?

 

[SmallStep]

I see.....I thought Nat was asking for pics of these tiny for their age birds.

Feed starts to degrade the day it is milled and is good for about 4-6 months before the nutrients are degraded to far to be any good.

Pics of the tiny birds in question would certainly help.

I realize this has gotten a bit confusing. The pictures are of my 4-month-old birds, but someone—maybe Nat—had asked what my existing birds were. The old girls—4.5 years—are the RI Reds and the Barred Rocks.
You can see from the pictures of me holding a few of them just how small they are for 4-month olds. I wouldn’t be able to do this if they were normal. I think they will eventually get where they need to be because they seem energetic and they eat well. It’s just weird. I did speak with McMurray and send them these same pictures. The guy I spoke with agreed that it wasn’t normal.
I appreciate all the responses.

 

[yakitori]

Oh no! Sorry to hear
I just found this thread today, and it struck me as odd that you were not done with your first 50lb bag yet. My 8 birds went through 40lbs at 8 weeks and now at 11 weeks we’re more than 1/4 way through the second 50lb bag. I also ferment my feed, which means they eat less.

Wishing all the best for your birdies and hope they make a full recovery

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I have two RI Reds and two Barred Rocks.
The starter grower is 20% protein. There isn’t a date on the bag. I may have cut that end off. But I got the 50-lb. bag in April. My feed store lady—who I trust—said it was new for this season. They haven’t quite finished the whole bag, but I give them as much as they want to eat.
I called McMurrey and they’re baffled as well and asked me to send pictures too, which I have. They double checked the order and said they did NOT accidentally ship bantams.
Thanks.

I’m going to give the new feed and see how they do before I go for anything else. I did just look on that bag for a milling date and didn’t see any date but there is a lot and batch number.

Mystery solved, I think... turns out the feed WAS old. I was told it was new but somehow when it was loaded, I got a bag from last year. I’m mostly mad at myself for not double-checking. So now the question is, has there been irreparable harm to the chick’s development?
I have a email in to McMurrayand I hope to hear from them today too.

I just spoke with McMurray and the woman I spoke with said she thought they’d be ok. Hard to believe but I’ll hope for the best. What else can I do, really?

All feed has a mill date on it somewhere. It could be on the guaranteed analysis tag or on the seal strip at one end of the bag or the other.
Sometimes it is in Julian date form or further concealed in some kind of code.

I'm sorry you are going through this and even the most diligent among us can make a mistake or be hoodwinked. I've been doing this all my life and still (albeit rarely) nearly buy something out of date. I too have discovered feed on store shelves that was a year and even two years old. I did force a store to take back a 60# bag of poultry nutri-balanacer that was over two years old. They weren't happy about it and tried to blame the manufacturer but research on both ends showed the feed store had kept it - unsold - for over two years because the manufacturer changed their computer system two years earlier and the new system had no record of this feed store buying any of their product.
The feed store nearest me does not remove old product and leaves it in stock for the unsuspecting. I always ask for the mill date before they even bring it out of the feed shed.
Now when they see me walk in they say, "you don't want to buy it". How unethical!
I shouldn't shop there at all but it is the closest to my house and the only thing I ever buy there is pine shavings. Even their straw is old. The inside of the bales just crumble.
Then I was happy to discover that a hardware store near me carries chicken products, including feed. It turns out their feed is over a year old also.
I must drive to another state (over an hour round trip) to get fresh feed.
I once bought a sack of barley from the aforementioned unethical feed store. I told them it was not for seeding a field but for growing fodder for feeding. They assured me that it was feed grade when they loaded it in my truck. I got it home and the tag listed all sorts of fungicides and insecticides the seed was treated with. They took it back. They don't normally stock barley and said someone ordered it who was making beer. For some reason they couldn't explain, he wouldn't buy it - duh!. I wonder why.

Even if your feed bag was milled this year, buying it in April means it is now old feed and should be discarded. Being from last year, one can't even call it feed. The statement that it was "new for this season" scares me and is a red flag. Feed is not seasonal. It is perishable and should be thought of as a loaf of bread, milk or other perishable food item.
The amino acids and vitamins are most degradable, especially the fat soluble vitamins. The fats added to feed can become rancid.
Whole grains can retain much of their nutritional value for months but once the hull is cracked, nutrients diminish quickly. Feed is mostly ground grains.
They've been eating old ground grains and most of the supplements added to make a complete feed have pretty much disappeared.

One problem as I see it, there is a mill date on feed but no expiration, sell by, best by or similar date. That isn't something required by the FDA as the regulatory agency for animal feed. Let the buyer beware.
I think your beef is with your feed store, not Murry McMurray, not the feed manufacturer. It is the feed store that unscrupulously sells old product to the unsuspecting loyal customers.
Well over 90% of feed store employees are in a category that should never be sought out for advice on anything related to chickens or other livestock. They know nothing of that subject matter.

As for how to proceed, I'm sorry to say that your birds are stunted and likely will never attain their full potential. At over 18 weeks they should be nearly finished growing.
The genetics of all animals including humans dictate that without adequate protein and other nutrients, they will be stunted. They won't reboot their youth at this age. Children that have been malnourished their entire childhood and then given plenty of good food after the age of 15 will grow but the damage is baked in.
I'm not even sure that providing a fresh feed will help a lot. They will be healthier and grow but even their immune systems have been compromised.
You need something more therapeutically supportive to kick start them.
In addition to dosing nutri-drench according to label directions, I would give the freshest starter feed you can find but also add some animal protein several times a week. I recommend some canned mackerel. Forget the cat food or dog food. Most contain too little animal protein and too many other things in it not targeted for feeding chickens. They need fish and meat. Even steak, chicken or turkey will do them wonders.

 

[SmallStep]

The girls have been on viable feed for a week. They’re growing and eating more. Still not up to size but I think/hope they’ll get there in another few weeks. That old food probably didn’t taste very good either!

 

[DuckYouMan]

Something that I've found that works wonders is eggs. Whenever I have a weak chick or someone not eating or what seems to be not growing enough, I will scramble an egg and put it ina syringe. They go crazy for it after a few bites usually. If they're too sick, I will put the syringe in the mouth and give them little bits at a time. The vitamins in an egg are great for bringing things back from the brink. It will help bulk them up pretty quickly as well.

It's good to remember that all breeds mature differently as well. I wouldn't expect my tomaru to develop at the same pace as my serama. The bigger they are, the longer they take to mature (usually).

 

[21hens-incharge]

I have wormed my big girls but the babies are too young in my opinion. I do put something called Zyfend in one of their smaller water dispensers. It’s got vitamins and probiotics.

I agree they may be a bit young. The fact that they have remained small but alive kinda points away from parasites.

I am a proponent of fecal float tests before worming. No need to treat what is not there.

 

[SmallStep]

Mystery solved, I think... turns out the feed WAS old. I was told it was new but somehow when it was loaded, I got a bag from last year. I’m mostly mad at myself for not double-checking. So now the question is, has there been irreparable harm to the chick’s development?
I have a email in to McMurrayand I hope to hear from them today too.

 

[21hens-incharge]

Wait....sorry to hijack....i was suppose to deworm my chickens?

A giant MAYBE on that.

I would only worm IF a fecal float test showed an issue.
Then I would worm with a proven medication for that type if worm.