unsteady/off-balance hen - what to look for?

[cityeggs]

Thank you!! That does make sense. I'll try to pick some up tomorrow and will let you know - I would love any of your pointers.

The syringe took forever tonight, made worse because the ones I have on hand are ones I was given for human newborns, so the bore is tiny and the food kept getting stuck. I managed to get some mash "balls" in her beak that she could then swallow fine by herself, and that was by far the easiest. But even that would take forever twice a day for who knows how many days!

 

[cityeggs]

So far, I've struck out with the local vets that are open today for tube feeding supplies - they don't carry them and can't suggest any place that might - but I have a few more to try.

I'm cautiously optimistic about her condition, though; she's better today than she was yesterday, so I'm hoping it really is just a vitamin deficiency and not anything viral/bacterial/toxic. Yesterday, I never observed her do anything but lie there and she fell over any time she tried to move; she would still talk to me, but that was it. This morning, before I got out to feed her, she had at least attempted to drink water on her own (though clearly had put her beak too far in because her whole face was wet, so I removed much of the water so it's not deep enough to submerge her face) and stood up when I came in. After her vitamin doses with some scrambled egg, I gave her a serving of chick crumble mash in bite-sized chunks, and she ate those fine. I just dribbled some water from the syringe slowly onto her beak, and she lapped that up, so I didn't have to put it down her throat. And after breakfast, she was on her feet, and was attempting (unsuccessfully still) to preen - something I didn't even see her attempt yesterday. She still can't come close to straightening her neck or controlling her movements, but standing on her feet without immediately falling over is an improvement over yesterday.

 

[cityeggs]

Today's update - she seemed very weak this morning - perhaps bc it had been so long since she'd had water - I don't know.

Poop is bright green, and obviously, she hasn't been eating any greens in days. I know it can just be sign of starvation - she likely didn't get enough food on Friday, and perhaps meals were too spread out yesterday, but I'm also seeing it come up as a sign of Marek's Can it also signify just failing digestive system? To my knowledge, all of the chicks and adults have been vaccinated against Marek's, but I know that just decreases the risk and doesn't fully eliminate it. I don't have a place to fully isolate her, and at this point, if she has something contagious, I'm sure everyone has been exposed, so she is separated for her safety, but not quarantined.

Before all this, her vent feathers were already to the point where I knew I needed to find time to clip them and clean her up, but now they're badly caked with poop, so I'll figure out a time to tackle that today. I didn't want to do it right after feeding her to give her time to rest and digest.

When I placed her back in her crate, I had to position her so that her beak didn't fill with wood chips and the eye that seems to work better could see. At one point, it looked like maybe we'd given her too much water - she had clear fluid/bubbles leaking out of her mouth; it seemed to stop once I propped her head a little more upright with something under her neck, so I don't know if this was just positional and/or points to rapid decline.

I didn't find tube feeding supplies locally, but I'm going to order some - it seems like they'll be useful to have on hand no matter what. And, I've found a vet that sees chickens, but they're not open on Sundays, so assuming she makes it until tomorrow, I think I'll likely take her in - if nothing else, get a professional opinion on whether she has a chance of recovery, or whether euthanasia would be most humane.

 

[cityeggs]

At some point in the last few hours, she died. I'm looking into local necropsy options - it sounds like there's an affordable state lab within an hour drive in Davis, CA.

 

[cityeggs]

What tests would you request? Marek's, HPAI, - anything else come to mind? I'm assuming they won't test for a lot, but would probably do those two - just not sure what else would have these potential symptoms. I didn't know HPAI could have nervous system symptoms (though what I read, it sounds like they're more common in other fowl, not so much chickens??)

 

[Chipmunk Chicks]

At some point in the last few hours, she died. I'm looking into local necropsy options - it sounds like there's an affordable state lab within an hour drive in Davis, CA.

I'm so sorry for your loss. It sounds like you did absolutely everything you could for your sweet girl. Hopefully you get some answers and the rest of your flock stays safe.

 

[cityeggs]

Well, I am glad I bothered to get a necropsy, despite my husband trying to dissuade me, thinking it wasn't worth the effort. UC Davis made it pretty easy, especially since I could just drive there (and visit friends in the same trip) instead of paying >$100 to ship.

I requested testing for Marek's, HPAI and they added heavy metal screening, which I was glad of - it wasn't something I thought of. HPAI was not detected, which is the only good news. I don't have the toxicology report back, but preliminary necropsy thus far suggests Marek's.

I'm not sure whether I'm hoping it was heavy metal toxicity or Marek's - both seem equally difficult to deal with, though Marek's doesn't at least pose potential health problems for us humans, whereas if there's enough lead (in the soil?) to have killed her, we've been accumulating it too via eggs. I did have our soil tested years ago and I don't remember there being high enough levels to cause concern, though we've opted to only plant vegetables in raised beds just to be safe. I'm not sure I took any soil samples from that area of the yard, since it's too shady to grow vegetables anyway. I'll have to look through my records. And read up on the Marek's posts. I have a cockerel I planned to rehome very soon, since they're not allowed here, and that certainly puts a wrench in those plans.

 

[Chipmunk Chicks]

Wow. I'm so sorry. Now you still have more questions sounds like, but at least one big answer. I think the Chickenlandia lady has some good podcasts on Marek's as well.

 

[BantamChickenLand]

Well, I am glad I bothered to get a necropsy, despite my husband trying to dissuade me, thinking it wasn't worth the effort. UC Davis made it pretty easy, especially since I could just drive there (and visit friends in the same trip) instead of paying >$100 to ship.

I requested testing for Marek's, HPAI and they added heavy metal screening, which I was glad of - it wasn't something I thought of. HPAI was not detected, which is the only good news. I don't have the toxicology report back, but preliminary necropsy thus far suggests Marek's.

I'm not sure whether I'm hoping it was heavy metal toxicity or Marek's - both seem equally difficult to deal with, though Marek's doesn't at least pose potential health problems for us humans, whereas if there's enough lead (in the soil?) to have killed her, we've been accumulating it too via eggs. I did have our soil tested years ago and I don't remember there being high enough levels to cause concern, though we've opted to only plant vegetables in raised beds just to be safe. I'm not sure I took any soil samples from that area of the yard, since it's too shady to grow vegetables anyway. I'll have to look through my records. And read up on the Marek's posts. I have a cockerel I planned to rehome very soon, since they're not allowed here, and that certainly puts a wrench in those plans.

Did you get your report back?

 

[cityeggs]

Did you get your report back?

I did - thanks for checking. I don't get on here very often, and it's been a lot to think about. I was also hoping I'd hear back from the pathologist about whether or not I could order a PCR to confirm. Everything else was ruled out - Newcastle's, AI, heavy metal poisoning, so the default diagnosis was Marek's .

I didn't get an answer as to why they don't do PCR's for Marek's even though they exist, but I didn't press too much - I was curious more than anything (is it not a reliable PCR test? is Marek's just so common that it's not worth it? is there some kind of licensing thing that makes it more expensive for them to use? is it relatively new and they just haven't revised their protocol?)

Anyway, I'm still finding my bearings in the post-Marek's diagnosis world - it changes a lot, unfortunately, though so far no one else has any symptoms (knock on wood - do I dare say that??), so here's to hoping that its impact on the rest of my flock is minimal...

It does mean that I will likely have to euthanize the cockerel I was just about to rehome (this time I thought I had a pretty good shot at someone wanting him - he's a pretty and calm guy so far - and had a back-up place for him, if no one wanted him), unless by some miracle someone else with a Marek's positive flock wants to take the risk of taking him and letting him live as long as he can. But that seems pretty slim, seeing as I've never found anyone (other than the feed store) who wanted my perfectly healthy cockerels in the past.