*UPDATE*...new hen sneezing bad????

[Clay Valley Farmer]

There is a significant chance she would be a carrier for months if not years. Every time some stress comes about she and the others would be likely to have symptoms appear. ILT for example which is one of the CRD that causes respritory problems in chickens is a herpes virus and like cold sores in people symptoms come and go, stress can bring a breakout and likely more virus is being shed durring a breakout. As it is a virus antibiotics have limited affect and really only deal with secondary infections on that specific CRD.

But look up the different CRDs and treatment options. With a little more info you will be in a better position to determin what exactly is the most likely cause, what treatments are best and what you may want to do long term.

ILT, IB, Coryza and MG are a few of the ones to look up.

CRD is very common in back yard flocks, some people cull and are really strict about taking new birds in, some just treat it as it comes and run a closed flock, some people will sell with disclosure that the birds may have come into contact with CRD, some sell sick birds in bad faith, others just don't know better.

 

[KooKoe]

well, I googled CRD last night and spent half the night reading up about it. It seems that it's quite a difficult thing, in that no-one guarentees full recovery. The only website that claims that it can be cured is the Baytril site, and you have to question that information because at the end of the day, they are selling a product. My current flock (13 and 7 due to hatch) have not shown any signs of this and have been healthy for over a year. I do my utmost best to keep them healthy and happy and I am ultra sure to keep things as clean as possible.
Judging from the new hen's symproms and what I have learned in the past few days about CRD, it would be irresponsible of me to knowingly expose my healthy birds to this thing. This is not a decision I take lightly. The new hen Sadee is an absolute sweetheart and has the most amazing personality. As a rule, I never give up on any of my animals, no matter how sick, but as stated before, I have 13 healthy birds and would be a bad mommy if I were to deliberately put them at risk.
So, Sadee must go. now I am faced with the following decision... do I cull her or do I simple find her a new home? I ask this question because I wonder if it is not my responsibility as a good pet owner, to prevent further spread of this disease, wether it's in my own flock or someone elses flock?
any words of wisdom?

 

[Clay Valley Farmer]

Tough call, sorry you are facing the issue.

I hope some others chime in to give a more rounded view, but for the good of your healthy flock I see three options.

1 Sell/give her away with full disclosure. Some people know they have CRD and won't be too concerned about the chicken being exposed though very few will want to take an activly sick bird. Some people will just want her for the table so they would not care.

2 Give her back to who ever you got her from.

3 Soup, none of these CRD seem to have any possibility of crossing to humans and cooking would kill any germs anyhow.

 

[ND]

Personally, I'd get her some Denagard and keep her in total isolation/quarantine for awhile.

Many of the CRD illnesses are EXTREMELY contagious. Since you have already put her in with your flock, chances are, they are exposed/infected. Some of these illnesses take nearly up to a month to incubate before they show symptoms. It could be just a few days to 20+ days before anyone in your flock starts to show symptoms.
If your flock comes down with it, are you going to cull the entire flock or treat and keep a closed flock? If your answer is cull them all... then I suppose you should go ahead an cull the new, sick bird. (or, if possible, return her to where you got her immediately)

If the answer is to treat/close your flock... then there's no reason why this gal can't still join it, if they all end up infected from the exposure already.


I would not give her/sell her to anyone else knowing she is sick and could infect their flock... unless that was disclosed and they were VERY aware of it and what it meant.


Denagard can be ordered online and works very well for CRD/MG. I have an MG infected flock (well, 99% sure it's MG) and I chose to treat them. I don't breed for sale or sell hatching eggs and or sell off any of my existing flock (no bird will leave her alive for any reason), so I'm not worried about infecting other flocks. I don't show, either. These are just my pets/for eggs.

From my experience thus far, Denagard has worked wonders as a preventative, too.
Well, I can't be sure if it totally prevents (without testing) or prevents symptoms when infected. (I have read that it is thought to also prevent carrier status, too. Only testing birds would confirm that)
What I have done to *test* Denagard is.... I got some new chicks several months ago. At first, I intended to keep separate flocks, but later decided to use these few chicks in my test of Denagard. They were completely quarantined for the first 6 weeks or so, not medicated in any way. Then I used the 'preventative dose' in my established flock's water (I do this monthly for several days) and I put it in the chicks water...and moved the chicks to "high exposure" to the adult birds. They were placed in a grow out coop/run that was inside the run of my big birds. The birds could touch each other (hex fencing), and did... but the big birds couldn't hurt the chicks. Both flocks were dosed in the preventative dose for 7 days, then 5-7 days each month following. (I don't toss eggs, in the countries Denagard is labeled for, it is used in chickens with no egg withdrawal. I'm in the US-- it's not approved for poultry use here so they can't legally sell it labeled for chickens or as no egg withdrawal, but that's how I use it)

Thus far, the chicks have been exposed for a few months... and not one has become sick or shown even one symptom of CRD/MG. Not even the tiniest symptom. They've been CLOSELY monitored. (especially since I was concerned that exposure that early on might have more fatalities than exposure when older)

Like I said, I'm not sure if this means it has actually prevented them from contracting the illness AT ALL, or if it has just prevented any symptoms from showing if/when they did.
Since *I* do not plan on testing any of them, I won't know... nor will I know if any become carriers regardless. I'm just pretty amazed/surprised that it actually has seemed to work as a 'preventative', even if that only means symptom preventative for me. (of course it also works nicely on CRD symptoms that other meds don't quite knock out or help at all. I much prefer it over Baytril at this point.)


I suppose you could get some to start treating your flock as a preventative before any possibly showed symptoms. Perhaps it would entirely prevent them from getting it despite their heavy exposure already. It'd be worth a shot if I had a flock that had been exposed and especially if illness meant I would cull them all rather than treat.

 

[PamB]

Has she already been with your other chickens at all? I only ask because of the picture you posted, it looks like she is in a coop with others. Also, have you been really careful to wash your hands and change your clothes/shoes before tending to your healthy chickens after tending to the sick one? I recently thought I had a bird with CRD (luckily, it didn't turn out that way), and read a lot about it as I know you have. If she wasn't always isolated and you weren't careful about washing your hands and changing your clothes, etc., your flock may already be infected. They don't necessarily have to show signs of the illness either..some may but some may only be carriers and never show signs of the actual illness.

 

[KooKoe]

Clay Valley Farmer, ND and PamB... you guys have been great in helping me with my decision.

I gave it alot of thought....She is currently inside the house with me and was only exposed to a portion of my flock for about 3 hours before I removed her. I have a free roaming flock (6 chickens) which I use thier eggs for houshold use, and then I have the OEG's in an avery. I keep the OEG's because they are pretty and do not use the eggs for table consumption at all. I am mostly breeding the OEG"S to build up a stock of hens. I currently only have the one hen (who is on eggs) and one rooster, so I bought the new hen to add to my stock. I do not sell or show any of my birds.

my free roaming flock pass the avery several times a day and there is always a bit of taunting through the fence between the two roo's.

Last night, after having no success at the vet, I gave the sick hen some Echinae (a herbal remedy to boost imune system). It's all I had. This morning she showed a DRASTIC improvement! She scratched all the food out her bowl, layed an egg and is mumbling insults at me as she paces up and down in the cage...

This got me thinking. CRD is a 'manageable' disease. provided they have a well balanced diet and a happy life, they might not ever have a flare up? These are all things which I provide in ample supply...

I remember my OEG roo was sneezing when I first got him too. he eventually stopped sneezing and has never shown any symptoms since... so the chances that he ALREADY is infected could be quite high...

SO, with the correct management, I can keep her right?

I don't want to cull her and I know in my heart that NO-ONE will look after her as well as I will.

So, I have decided to keep her in the house with me until she is full well and healthy and then re-introduce her into my avery. My flock is closed. I do supply my mother with chickens, but she has the roo which came with the sick hen and he is not showing any symptoms as yet. if they were together, then chances are he has it. so technically the flock is still closed. I have asked around and Baytril seems to be easily accessible around here. Anyone have experience with this medication?
and again guys, you have been amazing. Thank you!

 

[Clay Valley Farmer]

Sounds like you got a handle on it, hope the hen keeps improving and is better quick.

I would however be very cautious on giving herbals to chickens, some things that are good for people can be bad for chickens, just don't assume they are ok, do the research first thats all.

 

[KooKoe]

Quote:
thanks. I'm going to see another vet tomorrow who apparently specializes in avian matters. They are a bit far out, but it's worth the drive. until then, the herbal remedy seems to be keeping her comfortable.

 

[ND]

CRD is manageable. Certainly. They may or may not have "flare ups". IF they do, it is usually when stressed. Moved, molting, extreme heat or cold, etc.

I am not a huge fan of Baytril, despite it being highly recommended for certain things. I think for the right infection or disease, it might be all that it's 'cracked up' to be, but for CRD, I didn't find it any better than Tylan 50, just 10x's the cost. I had the same results with Baytril and Tylan 50... they both got rid of the most significant symptoms, but after the week to two week treatment, some still had sneezing.

As my post before indicated, I use Denagard now. I used it in a treatment strength to knock out the remaining sneezing that very few in my flock continued to have after all other treatments. It successfully got rid of any symptoms. I use it at a preventative for flareups (and on my chicks now that haven't ever shown illness) monthly for a few days a month. So far, so good... I'm very impressed with it. It's costly initially (about $50 delivered to ME in the U.S, ordered online), but one bottle will last me nearly a year of monthly treatments. Per dose cost is pretty low, it takes very little of it. (about 15cc's in a gallon for treatment purposes when there's active symptoms, or about 7-8cc's per gallon in my 'preventative' monthly doses. All mixed in the water)


The one thing about several of the CRD illnesses is that they can be quite more fatal for young chicks, and can cause some decline in hatchability.
It can be transferred (very slight risk) from a carrier hen to the egg, or if the hen is mothering the chicks, she can quickly infect the chicks. Being exposed in the first few weeks might prove fatal to them. Older pullets/chickens handle it much better and mortality is usually low to none in older birds, depending on what you're dealing with.

If you're hatching chicks out of exposed birds OR birds that may be carriers, *I* would definitely use a "preventative treatment' medication on them at hatch, and following the preventative schedule for chicks for several weeks. You'll greatly reduce mortality if they get infected, you may actually prevent infection altogether OR at least until they are older, and you'll have far less issues with stunting... young birds tend to not grow well or get stunted if infected early on.


Lots to think about... but that's what I'd do. If you don't show, don't sell, and those things aren't in your plans for the future, there's no reason why you can't treat and keep whatever birds you want.


Unfortunately, 3 hours of exposure was plenty in most cases. Some of these illnesses are SO contagious that you can track them home from a show, poultry swap, or anywhere else that you may have been that could pick it up on your shoes or clothing. Then, if you go home and don't change clothing/shoes and visit your birds... that's enough to infect them in some cases. So, 3 hours of close contact exposure is more than enough unfortunately. *I* would order Denagard and start them on it ASAP in a preventative dose, the sick hen on a treatment dose, and then continue it as needed/desired. Perhaps it'd help lesson the impact on the entire flock. But that's just how impressed I've been with it in my own personal experience.

Good luck!