URGENT! Chicken layer feed has "dead animal bodies" in it?

[schellie69]

Quote:
You may not believe it, but there is no restriction against using them in animal feed. Beware the "mysterious" ingredients such as "meat meal" or "animal protein" or other ambiguous terms. If a manufacturer wants to use a premium ingredient, you can be sure it'll be listed as such. But there's a reason that cheap food is cheap.



~Chris

I read in a earlier post you don't have chickens yet. I have had chickens for 2 years and have bought the same feed for those 2 years my chickens are healthy and happy they lay great eggs. I think that by showing what main stream factory farms are using for feed is not what the small farmer or backyard keeper uses. I give my girls plenty of veggies from my garden grass clippings and lots of bugs. I thought about using the vegetarian feed but chickens need meat of some kind. I will use what I have been since my chickens are doing great. Right now cheap food not only for me but also for my animals is whats in the budget. I also have read the back of the feed back and none of the ingredients you mention are there matter of fact I can even pronounce what they are. So I will do things my way and you do them yours. To the OP your chickens really need a good layer feed. Check out what is in the different feeds offered in your area then buy what you feel is best for you and your chickens.

 

[Neil Grassbaugh]

Now all you scientific types better be careful.

What you are saying here dosen't jive with what grandma, the old guy down the road and the misinformation highways says. Nor with the proof held dear to the heart to by the "it always worked for me" crowd.

PS - and don't confuse them any further with any furrin moon talk about amino acids.


"Trust science. It hat taken us a lot further than superstion has." Irvin Grassbaugh 1915-2002

 

[Sunny Side Up]

Quote:
What I want to know is WHERE do you live that there are advertisments on the public busses aimed at those who purchase chicken feed??? If I had information that I wanted to direct to the chicken-keepers in my community I wouldn't think to place ads there.

 

[AquaEyes]

Quote:
True, I have not looked at a chicken-feed bag. If there aren't ingredients that do not specify the animal from which it came (i.e. meat meal, animal protein, animal fat, etc), then you don't have to worry about dogs and cats going into the mix. However, even if the bag says "porcine meal" you must realize that the "pig" stuff being used can be a 4-D product. Animal feed becomes the "dumping ground" for food products deemed "unfit for human consumption." Think about it -- if a producer can get more money selling meat for human food, why would he cut himself short by putting it into animal food? He doesn't. Anything and everything that can be sold at a higher price will be, and anything that doesn't make the grade will get rendered and turned into animal feed. There is nothing that "doesn't make the grade" for animal feed....even roadkill is technically allowable. The thought is that no matter how diseased or rotten, as long as it goes to a rendering plant and gets diluted by all the other stuff, it becomes safe.

I became aware of what ingredients in animal feed can include because I was researching pet food. Right now, I have just my amazon parrot, but when I was considering getting a dog, I started researching this. Basically, I decided that if the animal didn't need meat in its diet (for example, my amazon parrot), then I made sure that any feed did not contain ANY animal products. If the animal did need meat in its diet (for example, dogs), then I decided to make my own food, where I can "see" any animal products in their whole form rather than just their name on a list of ingredients.

I'm not saying that all feed is horrible. But you must know what is legally allowable to go in there, and that if an ingredient list looks ambiguous, keep in mind that businesses are out to make profits, and defer to the most they can get away with under the law. Don't think of "meat meal" as the stuff that doesn't get sold at the supermarket. Think of anything that could possibly be called "meat" (i.e. muscle tissue, with no reference to source species or condition at time of inclusion into the mix) and you'll have an idea of what is legally allowed to be called "meat meal."

Do what you wish. I'm the last person to tell anyone what to do. However, be informed of your decisions. If you hear something (in any situation) that doesn't make sense, FIND OUT by doing a little research, rather than simply believing or not believing. Personally, I have "trust issues" with factory-farm-meat for my own consumption (I buy meat only from farm-to-fork producers, supporting the local farmers rather than big agribusiness). If I got a dog, I'd want to be able to "see" the meat ingredients in the food, so I'd feed a raw-type diet. And when I get poultry, the feed will not contain "land-meat" (I'd allow for "fish meal" or "krill"). But that's just me.

~Chris

 

[AquaEyes]

Quote:
You may not believe it, but there is no restriction against using them in animal feed. Beware the "mysterious" ingredients such as "meat meal" or "animal protein" or other ambiguous terms. If a manufacturer wants to use a premium ingredient, you can be sure it'll be listed as such. But there's a reason that cheap food is cheap.



~Chris

I read in a earlier post you don't have chickens yet. I have had chickens for 2 years and have bought the same feed for those 2 years my chickens are healthy and happy they lay great eggs. I think that by showing what main stream factory farms are using for feed is not what the small farmer or backyard keeper uses. I give my girls plenty of veggies from my garden grass clippings and lots of bugs. I thought about using the vegetarian feed but chickens need meat of some kind. I will use what I have been since my chickens are doing great. Right now cheap food not only for me but also for my animals is whats in the budget. I also have read the back of the feed back and none of the ingredients you mention are there matter of fact I can even pronounce what they are. So I will do things my way and you do them yours. To the OP your chickens really need a good layer feed. Check out what is in the different feeds offered in your area then buy what you feel is best for you and your chickens.

True, I don't have chickens yet, and if you do and are happy with your results, that is great. I'm not about telling anyone what to do, but I am about knowing what's going on. I wasn't saying that chicken feed definitely has these ingredients. I was saying what is ALLOWED to be used in animal feed IN GENERAL. And knowing what's allowed, I assume it's in there unless otherwise stated equivocally in the ingredients. If your feed says "meat meal" then anything legally allowed under that term can potentially be in there. Saying you believe that the bad stuff goes into only the factory farm stuff is not based on fact if the two feeds have the same list of ingredients. With regards to animal feed, assume the ingredient meets the lowest definition criteria unless otherwise stated. That's all it has to be.

So getting back to the OP: are dead pets from animal shelters in chicken feed? That depends on the ingredient list. If all animal protein is listed by species, and you don't see "dog meal" or "cat meal" then you don't have to worry. If an ingredient says "meat meal" or "animal fat" then you must accept the reality (as provided by federal regulations) that rendered animal shelter remains CAN be included in this definition. Statements like "I believe" mean nothing with regards to reality. If it's allowable by law, it's going to happen, especially in the name of making money. If your chickens are happy and healthy and that is enough for you, that's great. If it doesn't matter to you what's going into the feed as long as everything is working fine, that's great. But stating something is false just because you don't want to believe it is true, even when evidence is provided that contradict your belief, is just sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes, and saying "la-la-la...I'm not listening."

hehe

 

[Katy]

Quote:
True, I have not looked at a chicken-feed bag. If there aren't ingredients that do not specify the animal from which it came (i.e. meat meal, animal protein, animal fat, etc), then you don't have to worry about dogs and cats going into the mix. However, even if the bag says "porcine meal" you must realize that the "pig" stuff being used can be a 4-D product. Animal feed becomes the "dumping ground" for food products deemed "unfit for human consumption." Think about it -- if a producer can get more money selling meat for human food, why would he cut himself short by putting it into animal food? He doesn't. Anything and everything that can be sold at a higher price will be, and anything that doesn't make the grade will get rendered and turned into animal feed. There is nothing that "doesn't make the grade" for animal feed....even roadkill is technically allowable. The thought is that no matter how diseased or rotten, as long as it goes to a rendering plant and gets diluted by all the other stuff, it becomes safe.

I became aware of what ingredients in animal feed can include because I was researching pet food. Right now, I have just my amazon parrot, but when I was considering getting a dog, I started researching this. Basically, I decided that if the animal didn't need meat in its diet (for example, my amazon parrot), then I made sure that any feed did not contain ANY animal products. If the animal did need meat in its diet (for example, dogs), then I decided to make my own food, where I can "see" any animal products in their whole form rather than just their name on a list of ingredients.

I'm not saying that all feed is horrible. But you must know what is legally allowable to go in there, and that if an ingredient list looks ambiguous, keep in mind that businesses are out to make profits, and defer to the most they can get away with under the law. Don't think of "meat meal" as the stuff that doesn't get sold at the supermarket. Think of anything that could possibly be called "meat" (i.e. muscle tissue, with no reference to source species or condition at time of inclusion into the mix) and you'll have an idea of what is legally allowed to be called "meat meal."

Do what you wish. I'm the last person to tell anyone what to do. However, be informed of your decisions. If you hear something (in any situation) that doesn't make sense, FIND OUT by doing a little research, rather than simply believing or not believing. Personally, I have "trust issues" with factory-farm-meat for my own consumption (I buy meat only from farm-to-fork producers, supporting the local farmers rather than big agribusiness). If I got a dog, I'd want to be able to "see" the meat ingredients in the food, so I'd feed a raw-type diet. And when I get poultry, the feed will not contain "land-meat" (I'd allow for "fish meal" or "krill"). But that's just me.

~Chris

You obviously haven't been around either dogs or chickens and the disgusting things they relish to eat if given the chance. My dogs' favorite "treat" is afterbirth that has been cooking in the sun for a couple of days. When my chickens free-ranged their favorite place to eat was in the cow lot in the fresh cow patties.

 

[AquaEyes]

Quote:
What I want to know is WHERE do you live that there are advertisments on the public busses aimed at those who purchase chicken feed??? If I had information that I wanted to direct to the chicken-keepers in my community I wouldn't think to place ads there.

I think it was a flier or printed card of some sort. At least, that's what I got out of "an advertisement on top of the seats." I'm back in college now, and I see those printed card advertisements on seats EVERYWHERE and for ANYTHING. Such a waste of paper -- 90% must go right to the trash.

 

[AquaEyes]

Quote:
True, I have not looked at a chicken-feed bag. If there aren't ingredients that do not specify the animal from which it came (i.e. meat meal, animal protein, animal fat, etc), then you don't have to worry about dogs and cats going into the mix. However, even if the bag says "porcine meal" you must realize that the "pig" stuff being used can be a 4-D product. Animal feed becomes the "dumping ground" for food products deemed "unfit for human consumption." Think about it -- if a producer can get more money selling meat for human food, why would he cut himself short by putting it into animal food? He doesn't. Anything and everything that can be sold at a higher price will be, and anything that doesn't make the grade will get rendered and turned into animal feed. There is nothing that "doesn't make the grade" for animal feed....even roadkill is technically allowable. The thought is that no matter how diseased or rotten, as long as it goes to a rendering plant and gets diluted by all the other stuff, it becomes safe.

I became aware of what ingredients in animal feed can include because I was researching pet food. Right now, I have just my amazon parrot, but when I was considering getting a dog, I started researching this. Basically, I decided that if the animal didn't need meat in its diet (for example, my amazon parrot), then I made sure that any feed did not contain ANY animal products. If the animal did need meat in its diet (for example, dogs), then I decided to make my own food, where I can "see" any animal products in their whole form rather than just their name on a list of ingredients.

I'm not saying that all feed is horrible. But you must know what is legally allowable to go in there, and that if an ingredient list looks ambiguous, keep in mind that businesses are out to make profits, and defer to the most they can get away with under the law. Don't think of "meat meal" as the stuff that doesn't get sold at the supermarket. Think of anything that could possibly be called "meat" (i.e. muscle tissue, with no reference to source species or condition at time of inclusion into the mix) and you'll have an idea of what is legally allowed to be called "meat meal."

Do what you wish. I'm the last person to tell anyone what to do. However, be informed of your decisions. If you hear something (in any situation) that doesn't make sense, FIND OUT by doing a little research, rather than simply believing or not believing. Personally, I have "trust issues" with factory-farm-meat for my own consumption (I buy meat only from farm-to-fork producers, supporting the local farmers rather than big agribusiness). If I got a dog, I'd want to be able to "see" the meat ingredients in the food, so I'd feed a raw-type diet. And when I get poultry, the feed will not contain "land-meat" (I'd allow for "fish meal" or "krill"). But that's just me.

~Chris

You obviously haven't been around either dogs or chickens and the disgusting things they relish to eat if given the chance. My dogs' favorite "treat" is afterbirth that has been cooking in the sun for a couple of days. When my chickens free-ranged their favorite place to eat was in the cow lot in the fresh cow patties.

It's not that I think it's "gross" it's that I think it's "unhealthy." There's nothing wrong with a chicken pecking through cow manure, per se. But cow manure from factory farms, fed anitbiotics and given growth hormones, getting sicker and sicker from being fed grain just before slaughter, is not the same thing. I just don't trust the source. Likewise, I don't have a problem with chickens eating meat -- they are omnivores, after all -- I just don't trust the QUALITY of the meat going into their feed if I can't see it. And again, this is ME.

Would you let your chickens eat meat from an animal on your farm that just dropped dead one day, and you didn't know why? Or maybe you did know why, and it was because the animal was really sick. Would you feed it to your chickens? I wouldn't. But animals like that are allowed into animal feed. Yes, they are. Not just the big factory farms, but ALL animal feed. If it's allowed to be in there, assume it IS in there, unless stated otherwise. And that's why I don't trust it. I'd rather (for myself...again, do what you wish...to each his own) buy a vegetarian feed, or a feed where the only animal protein is fish, and include animal protein from a source I can verify. I've seen threads on here on raising worms in compost bins, black soldier larvae, and other sources of protein. From learning about exotic avian husbandry, I know that a lot of people raise their own insects (and it's very cheap to do). Again, do what you want. If you are fine with how it works, then keep doing it. But don't say that something isn't true simply because you don't want to believe it.

~Chris

 

[AquaEyes]

Quote:
LOVE IT!!! So true. I've encountered that before, as in my peafowl thread asking about "combining colors" (that was definitely a struggle).

Like I've been saying -- if you're happy with how it is, fine. If you don't want to know, fine. But don't step up and say something isn't so just because you don't want to believe that it is. If you see animal protein not identified by species on your chicken feed, it most definitely CAN include rendered remains from animal shelters. No stories or anecdotes or "I've been doing this for years" can change that fact. If this FACT is fine with you, then continue doing what you're doing. If this FACT is not fine with you, then take this knowledge, and make a change, rather than just convincing yourself that believing it isn't true will make it go away.

P.S. I corrected the spelling of "superstition" in your Irvin Grassbaugh quote.

 

[spiritdance]

Ummm, no, dead dogs and cats are not "allowed" to be in there. Federal regulations require that such animals, whether from pounds, research labs, wherever, be disposed of by incineration or removal by licensed agents. It's this last requirement that seems to give fringe elements amongst animal rights groups the head of steam to charge full speed ahead disseminating falsehoods. To be licensed, an agent CANNOT divert such animals to rendering. So how do the agents dispose of them? Yeah, that's right, they incinerate them or mass bury them. They're not engaged in some big conspiracy to circumvent federal regs. They are simply filling a market niche by providing the disposal facilities that small labs, pounds, etc., lack. The meat packing industry produces more than enough "by-products" for rendering to make any such "conspiracy" unreasonable from a purely financial perspective. It's CHEAPER to simply burn the "pet" carcasses than to risk federal fines or compete with factory farms.

You know, giant agri-business REALLY DOES commit a number of "sins" that we all can hold them accountable for - battery farm conditions, etc. - WITHOUT the need to "invent" excesses that do not occur. I grow my own meat for a number of reasons, most of them health related, some of them ethically driven, but that doesn't mean I'm prepared to jump on the "soylent green" conspiracy bandwagon that so many radical activist groups try to use to discourage meat consumption. I eat meat, my chickens eat meat ... h@ll, even my pigs eat meat ... it's my choice, and no amount of emotional blackmail based on outright deception is going to change that. So why do these groups prey on the emotions of well-meaning but not necessarily well-informed people? Huh? If they're so convinced their position is right and we "carnivores" are wrong, why do they need to engage in deception? It's certainly not "ethical," so where's that moral high ground they claim to stand on? I sincerely respect anyone who has made the personal choice to live a meat-free lifestyle, but it's just that, a personal choice, and I cannot respect those who want to push their choice on me, even if it means lying...

Quote:
True, I have not looked at a chicken-feed bag. If there aren't ingredients that do not specify the animal from which it came (i.e. meat meal, animal protein, animal fat, etc), then you don't have to worry about dogs and cats going into the mix. However, even if the bag says "porcine meal" you must realize that the "pig" stuff being used can be a 4-D product. Animal feed becomes the "dumping ground" for food products deemed "unfit for human consumption." Think about it -- if a producer can get more money selling meat for human food, why would he cut himself short by putting it into animal food? He doesn't. Anything and everything that can be sold at a higher price will be, and anything that doesn't make the grade will get rendered and turned into animal feed. There is nothing that "doesn't make the grade" for animal feed....even roadkill is technically allowable. The thought is that no matter how diseased or rotten, as long as it goes to a rendering plant and gets diluted by all the other stuff, it becomes safe.

I became aware of what ingredients in animal feed can include because I was researching pet food. Right now, I have just my amazon parrot, but when I was considering getting a dog, I started researching this. Basically, I decided that if the animal didn't need meat in its diet (for example, my amazon parrot), then I made sure that any feed did not contain ANY animal products. If the animal did need meat in its diet (for example, dogs), then I decided to make my own food, where I can "see" any animal products in their whole form rather than just their name on a list of ingredients.

I'm not saying that all feed is horrible. But you must know what is legally allowable to go in there, and that if an ingredient list looks ambiguous, keep in mind that businesses are out to make profits, and defer to the most they can get away with under the law. Don't think of "meat meal" as the stuff that doesn't get sold at the supermarket. Think of anything that could possibly be called "meat" (i.e. muscle tissue, with no reference to source species or condition at time of inclusion into the mix) and you'll have an idea of what is legally allowed to be called "meat meal."

Do what you wish. I'm the last person to tell anyone what to do. However, be informed of your decisions. If you hear something (in any situation) that doesn't make sense, FIND OUT by doing a little research, rather than simply believing or not believing. Personally, I have "trust issues" with factory-farm-meat for my own consumption (I buy meat only from farm-to-fork producers, supporting the local farmers rather than big agribusiness). If I got a dog, I'd want to be able to "see" the meat ingredients in the food, so I'd feed a raw-type diet. And when I get poultry, the feed will not contain "land-meat" (I'd allow for "fish meal" or "krill"). But that's just me.

~Chris

You obviously haven't been around either dogs or chickens and the disgusting things they relish to eat if given the chance. My dogs' favorite "treat" is afterbirth that has been cooking in the sun for a couple of days. When my chickens free-ranged their favorite place to eat was in the cow lot in the fresh cow patties.