Urgent!! need advice on training a guard dog!!

[bertman]

Wow! You have a major problem on your hands, I'm sorry to say.

My brother is a professional dog trainer--schutzhund: obedience, protection, tracking. He trains many different breeds (rots, shepherds, dobes, labs, malinois, akitas, etc) for all kinds of purposes and just to be good pets.

One thing he has repeatedly said about training dogs is that it doesn't matter how well the trainer trains the dog if there is not consistency with the dog AFTER it is trained. Based on what you are saying there is one person (you) who is willing to make the effort to work with this dog in the proper manner. The other two people who will be involved with the dog on a daily basis have the wrong idea about so many things that it is hard to imagine them even attempting to work with the dog after it's trained, much less being consistent with the dog so the training is reinforced daily.


Another thing he says about dogs is that when there is a dog that has been trained well, all of that training can be quickly undone by a weak, undisciplined, unmotivated owner/handler.


Dogs are amazingly good at 'reading' the people around them. You seem like a person who would do well with a trained guard dog. Your parents--not so much.


Good luck with this. I can tell it's very difficult for you so I hope you get this resolved in a good way. Please keep us informed.

 

[Mama_Bear]

We've only had the chickens since May; the dogs and cats don't bother them now, but they had to get a couple of good zaps from the electric fence we put up around their coop before they lost interest!

 

[Mama_Bear]

Quote:
That is so true. Our trainers trained US more - than they actually trained the dogs!

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

This one won't turn out well

 

[flight301]

I know, I'm going to have a long talk with my Mom. I printed out pages of info, which I highlighted and used post it for the important parts. She knows better! Its my darn Dave who is so darn stupid about this sort of thing! I didn't sign up for this evil guard dog sh*t!

 

[flight301]

Quote:
Thanks! Im printing this out. I literally told this to my parents over and over again. Dave had taken our Great pyrenese to ONE single obedience class ONE night a week for like a month or 2. He socialized with the dog but didn't really train it otherwise. The dog was a hot mess- it jumped all over you, didn't obey, didn't walk on a leash, etc etc. He would always claim he trained it when I said 'Dave you didn't train the dog at all', and he acted like the training had failed or something, when he had. I explained this concept to him... It will be good to hear this from another person! He never reinforced behaviors properly. The dog quickly forget everything!

I will post later about the decision. I am going to call the adoption people if I am insecure about bringing my Mom around, and I'll tell them about this, which I know will swiftly end this potential train wreck. I can't emphasize enough that Dave made up this guard dog business- It was suppose to be a nice friendly farm dog, I had no idea this was in the plans when I was helping them adopt this dog! My mom was talking about her rottweiler being a mush and great around people and thats why she loved it etc etc. I had no impression she wanted a angry attack dog (I dont think Dave does either but he doesn't realize what will happen if he gets his way)!

I would appreciate any dog training info from people about the benefits of socialization!

 

[dainerra]

Quote:
I will try to find a link to the study later, but it has actually been shown that "less is more" in the idea of dog training. By less I mean, short sessions with a once a week "power session" such as a class. The problem is CONSISTENCY. I bet that is where Dave failed. You have to follow through EVERY time, esp with dogs such as Shepherds. They quickly learn what they can get away with.

RE the puppy issue. An adult dog would DEFINITELY be better, esp as you are going through a rescue. They can tell you "yes this dog has a good history of getting along well with other animals" Until a GSD is at least a year old, his personality and body is still maturing. You could wake up 6 months from now to find that he has decided that killing is WAY more fun than guarding. In some situations with a very high prey drive animal, it is NOT something you can train them not to do.

Of course, since it would be very hard to get a rescue to adopt a dog into a situation where it might be left outside as a guard dog, that could be another hurdle.

 

[serenityNH]

I have been involved in adoption and fostering dogs for a long time. I can't believe a rescue group ( or a responsible breeder) would adopt out a dog knowing it's going into a situation where it won't be socialized and will be used as a guard dog which I assume will live outside. I'd like to know who this rescue group is?
If they are under false pretenses and you are concerned about your step dad not being responsible and for the welfare of this puppy then I would suggest contacting the rescue group discretely and explaining the dangerous situation the dog is coming into. Maybe they won't let your parents adopt the dog, although it seems like the rescue group may be shady and probably just wants the $ and doesn't necessarily care about the dogs situation.
It sounds like you will be a responsible dog owner on your own without your parents (or just step dad). I think seeing a dog treated in an irresponsible manner will be heartbreaking for you, unless you can completely control the situation with the dog and your parents.
In the end it's going to be this poor innocent dog that suffers. Good luck to you. Please take good care of that sweet dog and give him/her as much protection as he/she gives you.

 

[Ole rooster]

Sadly to say but if PetFinders did a little investigative research on your family, you wouldn't be getting a dog. Your family is very disfunctional and not the place for a pet. A weak male in the family that is supposed to be the head of household does not bode well for a dog in the mix. You sound like you have you mother's genes, so it could very well work out for you. But it is best the stepfather stay out of the picture and away for the animal, or has been stated already, it can all come unraveled in a hurry. I feel sorry you because you lack a strong male image to follow. Young boys need it so much.

Best of luck to you, and the dog.

 

[flight301]

Quote:
First of all, when we were first adopting we planed on keeping the dog as a pet/protector, it was not the crazy stuff Dave was suggesting. I filled out the application honestly- the dog was going to be outside sometimes and inside sometimes. We will have a huge huge run for the dog (1 acre) when we are not home, it will be around us when we are. We are HOME ALL THE TIME because we are farmers, so it won't be neglected. We did SAY we were going to keep the dog outside at night in warm weather once it was trained! We did not lie about this, we discussed the working dog issue with the organization. Dave had talked to my Mom about his ideas AFTER WE COMPLETED the adoption process, Ok? I would never have adopted this dog under false pretenses!

Ok, I understand the above quoted view based on what information I have given so far. We are not bad dog owners! My Mom and I are good with dogs, Dave not so much. In no way is Dave cruel or bad to dogs, he just doesn't understand what to expect from a dog or the training process. He is friendly towards dogs, but doesn't get the training process, he doesn't put the time into it. Our previous dogs were all nice, but they were not trained properly and they weren't good around the animals. I do not remember my parents ever doing extensive training with the dog around the animals- which is what I plan to do! Dave had talked to a farmer with a Pyrenese who lived with the sheep- he had told Dave something simliar to what Dave is thinking now as a training process (My mom told me this earlier this morning)- so I have figured out why Dave is thinking this sh*t will work with our dog.

I plan on training the dog! My parents are farmers and want a dog capable of being practical, I want to train the dog to fulfill this (at least to not hurt the animals which I don't think is unmanagable to do) as well as have to dog be a friendly pet that can hang around us. Dave got caught up in the idea if turn the dog into too much of a pet it will be a poor farm dog. If you know any real farmers, a lot of them have 'farm dogs' that don't do much socializing- they stay with the animals. This was not our original intention with this dog. Feeling sorry for me is unnessacary, I will do everything I can to provide this dog a good life and I know it can take 1-2 years to train it I do not expect a perfect dog day 1!

I talked to my parents this morning, I gave them all the information and we discussed the dog/training/expectations for an hour or so. We are on the same page now. Dave said he will allow me to train it. He read the info I provided and it changed his mind. He has concerns but he is willing to let me train the dog! So I appreciate everyones input. I had talked to my Mom about Dave's ideas on the phone last night and she had overemphasize his desire to have the dog as a 'guard dog'/non people friendly dog. I was extremely upset after this phone call, I didn't have the full picture. I was relieved to find out this is not the case! Dave is not being stubborn about this training, he is very receptive to what I have to say. We want a dog who will not hurt our animals, bottom line, and who will deter predators to some degree (not expecting a perfect guard dog!!). The whole guard dog thing is now off the table. Dave thought that by keeping the dog on the farm and isolating it, this would lead to a more effective guard dog, I have shown him information that proves otherwise, he was very receptive.

I appreciate everyones concern, I assure you this dog will not be mistreated! We have never mistreated our previous dogs, nor have we ever had a mean aggressive dog. Dave went a little cuckoo with his ideas, I have talked him out of it by flooding him with correct info! I will be its trainer, I have very flexible working hours/schedule to put the time into this. My family is not dysfunctional!! Dave is just really stupid about some things! And now that I know he heard some crackhead story from a farmer about how he trained his pyrenese, I understand where he got it from.