Urgent: post-amputation care, advice needed/I thought I would spend my Saturday doing this...

[darlingdarla]

It might help you understand what you are dealing with if you research dry gangrene vs. wet gangrene. Dry gangrene takes place in auto-amputation. The body "seals" off the dead tissue from the live. The live tissue will swell just above the dead before the dead part separates. During dry gangrene/auto-amputation, usually there is no infection.

Wet gangrene is a whole different matter. Fast-spreading and deadly unless treated with an effective antibiotic. I didnt research wet gangrene much after i knew i was dealing with dry gangrene. Looked at Lots of gruesome human photos showing dry gangrene/auto amputation in order to understand the process. I think/hope if you learn more about both types, you will understand more as far as what you are seeing.

Okay, I will look into it more, I didn't know there was more than one kind-
I'm asking about infection so much because I lost one of my hens to what I think was a blood infection a few months ago.

Anyway, just wondering, what is your take on the spot on the back of her knee? I thought that might be where the leg detaches because of the spot of swelling just above it and the pink tint.

And Rosie is doing the same. Tomorrow is her last day of Penicillin, and her leg looks the same right now.

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

I understand your concern about infection. And your concern is justified; infection should be your greatest current concern as far as Rosie's recovery. What Wyorp Rock said about the green spot possibly being bruising is plausible and makes sense, especially if it appeared shortly after you plucked the pin feathers.

Rosie's current photos are beyond my expertise and knowledge to give any medical input. (Thats why i previously tagged some that know more than me). A limb auto-amputating due to frostbite or other injury is different from a limb being surgically amputated.

I dont know if you've yet had time to read about the difference between wet and dry gangrene. I did a little reading, & learned that wet gangrene is caused by one of two bacteria, Clostridium perfringes or Bacillus fusiformis. Penicillin is the best antibiotic to treat both. But from what i read, if Rosie had wet gangrene you would definitely know it. Greenish-black swollen skin with a very foul odor, and the skin may be "crinkly" when you touched it. So from what you've described, Rosie likely doesnt have wet gangrene. But it's still possible for her wound to get infected from e. coli or other bacteria. The reason its imperative to keep the wound clean and dry.

Because only You can see, touch and smell Rosie's wound, i urge you to dive deep into surgical amputation post-surgical care, possible complications, etc etc. You will probably find much more info from human cases, but plenty of other cases from mammals & birds too. I think it will help you better understand Rosie's situation and what you are seeing. And please share what you learn here, because you will be helping others learn too.

 

[darlingdarla]

Her leg looks so much better than it did before, I feel like it's going to be a lot longer than two weeks before whatever amputates amputates, and I'm not sure if it's going to go at the knee or below, I guess we'll see. Today was her last day on antibiotics, I feel like an expert at giving intramuscular injections now.

Here are some new pictures-ignore the spot of urate on the end of her leg she stepped in it when I got her from the coop and I washed it off with peroxide. I also cleaned the coop.

Here is the suspected pressure sore

And this is her leg after the first application of hydrogel...

I had her sit on the porch with me while it soaked in. The curad worked well at keeping it clean but it sealed in some pin feathers despite my best efforts so they are protected with hydrogel as well.

I understand your concern about infection. And your concern is justified; infection should be your greatest current concern as far as Rosie's recovery. What Wyorp Rock said about the green spot possibly being bruising is plausible and makes sense, especially if it appeared shortly after you plucked the pin feathers.

Rosie's current photos are beyond my expertise and knowledge to give any medical input. (Thats why i previously tagged some that know more than me). A limb auto-amputating due to frostbite or other injury is different from a limb being surgically amputated.

I dont know if you've yet had time to read about the difference between wet and dry gangrene. I did a little reading, & learned that wet gangrene is caused by one of two bacteria, Clostridium perfringes or Bacillus fusiformis. Penicillin is the best antibiotic to treat both. But from what i read, if Rosie had wet gangrene you would definitely know it. Greenish-black swollen skin with a very foul odor, and the skin may be "crinkly" when you touched it. So from what you've described, Rosie likely doesnt have wet gangrene. But it's still possible for her wound to get infected from e. coli or other bacteria. The reason its imperative to keep the wound clean and dry.

Because only You can see, touch and smell Rosie's wound, i urge you to dive deep into surgical amputation post-surgical care, possible complications, etc etc. You will probably find much more info from human cases, but plenty of other cases from mammals & birds too. I think it will help you better understand Rosie's situation and what you are seeing. And please share what you learn here, because you will be helping others learn too.

I'm writing this on my break,
I've read up on it a bit but I haven't had time to do deep research between my shifts. I have off tomorrow night so I will study up then-
Part of my lack of knowledge is there aren't many sources for injuries like this in chickens, so I will make sure to read up on human and other animal cases. I have been looking at other post amputation and auto amputation threads on BYC though, and have found them extremely informative.
And the green is gone so it was definitely bruising, she got spots like that around most of the ingrown feathers after I freed them, and they're all gone today. I panicked a bit remembering how my other hen looked.

Thank you everybody! Unless her condition changes I'll update in a few days.
If anyone has anymore thoughts please share, everything helps

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

Make her a sling asap when u have time. She will likely enjoy it, & will help the pressure sore heal. You could make her a professional-looking sling chair, but also need not be anything fancy. When people suggested putting Matilda in a sling, i immediately improvised. Her sling was an ugly old long-sleeved shirt with holes cut for her legs. I used the shirt arms to tie overhead to lift her off ground. She didnt have any pressure sores, but i could still tell she appreciated the ability to get up off the ground.

 

[darlingdarla]

Make her a sling asap when u have time. She will likely enjoy it, & will help the pressure sore heal. You could make her a professional-looking sling chair, but also need not be anything fancy. When people suggested putting Matilda in a sling, i immediately improvised. Her sling was an ugly old long-sleeved shirt with holes cut for her legs. I used the shirt arms to tie overhead to lift her off ground. She didnt have any pressure sores, but i could still tell she appreciated the ability to get up off the ground.

Already on it, working on it when I get home tonight and will get her set up before I leave for work in the morning. I might take it out to her tonight if I can.

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

It sounds like you have a busy schedule. Here is Matilda in her first quickly improvised sling. Not pretty or fancy, but she liked it. I laid her in the shirt sling first, so i would know where to cut the leg holes. Only took a few minutes.

 

[darlingdarla]

It sounds like you have a busy schedule. Here is Matilda in her first quickly improvised sling. Not pretty or fancy, but she liked it. I laid her in the shirt sling first, so i would know where to cut the leg holes. Only took a few minutes. View attachment 2875062
View attachment 2875058

Right now I am going to make one with a plastic bin since she is in the coop still. Once it auto amputates I will probably see again if I could bring her inside, it'll probably be a no but we'll see, or I'll try to move her into the garage or shed.

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

To clarify, her limb may not "auto-amputate" since it has already been amputated. Whatever the proper term, either way yes it needs time to heal.

 

[ryneaeiel]

To clarify, her limb may not "auto-amputate" since it has already been amputated. Whatever the proper term, either way yes it needs time to heal.

What's left of the leg from the hock down will almost definitely auto-amputate.

The red line is the area where the flesh will likely separate off. The yellow line is what the stump will most likely look like once fully healed. She may end up keeping the space between the yellow and red lines -- it's just a matter of whether the bones in her joints separate or stay together, and isn't indicative of how her healing is going. So long as she's remaining active and healing well, she should be fine.

 

[darlingdarla]

What's left of the leg from the hock down will almost definitely auto-amputate.

View attachment 2875211

The red line is the area where the flesh will likely separate off. The yellow line is what the stump will most likely look like once fully healed. She may end up keeping the space between the yellow and red lines -- it's just a matter of whether the bones in her joints separate or stay together, and isn't indicative of how her healing is going. So long as she's remaining active and healing well, she should be fine.

That's what I thought it looked like, I guess we'll see.
The black necrotic line ends at the break, underneath the flesh is already healed. I'm not getting my hopes up, but I feel like if I keep up our routine she'll end up being okay.
It's amazing a bird can live through this.