Vaccinate or Not

[Red Star 2019]

I don't vaccinate my chickens. I do put 1 tsp of leaf oregano in a gallon of drinking water. I also worm my chickens with diatoemaous earth in their feed every month or so. Making sure the coop isn't too humid, prevents lung disease.

 

[NatJ]

Sooo am I to understand what you’re saying - I should not add to my flock ? The virus being so contagious , will probably kill any one I add?
so I’m done having chickens when my spinsters pass?

If you add new chickens that have been vaccinated, the new ones will catch the disease but might live and seem fine--that's what the vaccine does, sometimes keeps an infected chicken from dying or seeming sick.

You should certainly not sell or give away any chickens to other people, and try not to spread the disease in other ways. (For example, do not wear your chicken-care boots to the feed store or to visit someone else's chickens.)

 

[marilyn1954]

Who gets their chicks vaccinated...

Why or why not

Answer poll then comment you opinions below

I could be wrong but I think there is a big difference for people like me who have chickens and we just eat the eggs vs people who breed their chickens. But I’m really just guessing here.

 

[joydix]

The price of that vaccine!! You think that's single dose? Most are.

when i first got my flock 7 years ago i lost all but two to mareks. the vaccinated birds dont spread the virus. it is EVERYWHERE in our county. i never want to go thru that again. i do everything i can in hopes to prevent that. because they all carry it they can succumb to that as part of the cause of death. if you dont vaccinate and they have been exposed and can shed the virus you may be spreading (you in general...not you personally)it all over like the feed store where there are baby chicks for one thing. even if i am hatching just few birds i still buy the vaccine. sadly you cant save it.

 

[joydix]

My understanding is it can. Not necessarily CREATE a carrier but allow a sick bird to not show symptoms while still shedding (and thereby sharing) the illness.

When i lost my flock to mareks i was in contact with one of the head people in the poultry division at UC Davis. HE said they dont shed or spread the virus if vaccinated but they can carry it. they can still die from complications relating to if weakened by something else. which has been my experience. i also rake up all the molting feathers as much as i can....i feel like it helps but i dont know..its the dander that spread that virus in the air.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

I was given 9 day old Cremanti chicks last May. They all made it to fall then started dropping weekly. My beautiful flock is now 2 hens only. We sent them for necropsy and that hen was positive for Mareks. The hatchery said they vaccinated.
I don’t get what I did wrong here. I also have 3 Cochin hens that are old spinsters and not effected. I have opportunity to get an outside Roo but.... will he get sick if theyoung hens are carrying? I’m confused to vac not vac didn’t help my birds

Equustears, I’m so so sorry that this happened to you! We’ve lost a number of chicks and point of lay pullets to Marek’s, and it is devastating and heartbreaking! It sounds like you have a pretty hot strain of Marek’s to kill most of the group. Your remaining chickens should all be considered carriers of this hot strain. This doesn’t mean that they won’t live healthy lives or that you need to be concerned about eating eggs. You yourself should try not to spread this strain around to other people, so make sure you wear clean clothes and shoes out where other chicken owners are. I also wouldn’t visit with friends’ flocks etc.

Ok so why didn’t the vaccine work for your chicks? I can think of several possibilities, from simplest to most complicated:

1) vaccine got warmed in transit or too old or was otherwise deactivated. The vaccine contains live virus so is very sensitive to being deactivated.
2) chicks were exposed to wild MDV (Marek’ disease virus) too soon after vaccination. It takes about 2 weeks for the vaccine to work, and the longer you can keep vaccinated chicks away, the better the vaccine works. Exposure is very easy as the virus spreads on tiny particles in the air, clothes, shoes, hair, etc.
3) chicks were hatched with antibody from the mom, and it prevented the vaccine from working.
4) mismatch between vaccine and virus. That is, the chicks were vaccinated with the old, cell free vaccine that uses the turkey virus, HVT. If chicks were exposed to one of the newer, hotter strains of MDV, then that older vaccine may not protect very well. You may need one of the newer more effective vaccines, like the Rispens MDV. Some hatcheries sell chicks vaccinated with this. I bought chicks from The Chick Hatchery last summer because they use the Rispens vaccine and I have a hot strain. Those chicks are now 7 mo old and just starting to lay...

 

[ChocolateMouse]

I’m not sure I 100% agree with the first statement that professionals don’t recommend vaccinations. That in itself is actually the most confusing part to me. I have yet to meet a true professional in the industry that doesn’t encourage vaccinations. That would be my regular vet that helps me with chicken stuff, avian vets I’ve been to, specialty vets at Texas A&M, hatchery owners, hatchery workers, etc.

The only people I know that do not recommend it are breeders and small flock owners. I don’t understand this. To me it seems that the only advice to not vaccinate is not professional advice. Or people are taking advice meant for a different level of chicken keeper than they are. Most people that breed chickens are not actually chicken breeders. They’re hobbyists.

Im not trying to be combative, Because I myself have a flock with home hatched chicks that are not vaccinated and hatchery chicks that are.

a leaky vaccine doesn’t mean that a healthy chicken is going around dropping Mareks off at every Corner of the coop. It means an infected bird would be. So in a small personal flock, what’s the difference? Your hens are alive. If they were unvaccinated, they get infected, still shed the virus on your property... and likely die. Either way, you get mareks on your property and youre likely vaccinating every future bird you want, so why not start out that way and not lose birds?

Like I mentioned before - it depends largely on your goals. Some people here have mentioned hatcheries suggesting that people don't vaccinate their chicks. I know one vet, personally, that says if you aren't keeping them as pets don't use the Mareks vaccine. But again, most vets aren't trained to knowledge on chickens or their vaccines. And breeders are professionals. If you selected a random breeder and a random vet and asked them questions about chicken health most breeders would outclass the veterinarians any day of the week cause the vets aren't trained to know these things. The breeders HAVE to know these things. They're intimately connected to the state of chickens and chicken health in the united states and most keep up on new research and findings and methods.

In a small personal flock the main difference is knowledge. If your chickens are all vaccinated and they contract Mareks and, say, one dies (because the vaccine isn't perfect) or none die then you may have a flock that's sick (and therefore dangerous to other birds) and not know it. You may try to add unvaccinated birds, hatch chicks, or rehome your chickens with an undisclosed, deadly, highly contagious virus and that's a good way to spread the disease instead of combat it. You may even not take good biosecurity measures to not spread it to other flocks.
This can be a personal liability, but it can also be heartbreaking. You hatch a batch of new chicks and don't vaccinate and after months of raising them one by one they drop dead and you don't know why (until you do and it's too late). You decide to move into chickens for show or business and suddenly it's devastating.
I suspect many people who don't vaccinate for Mareks do it because they value the knowledge of there being such a serious problem so deeply that they would rather see some or all birds die than not know. It could be a personal responsibility thing or a moral imperative thing or whatever but they value that knowledge.

For me, I probably fall into that hobbyist breeder category. But why on earth should I, as a hobbyist, present a sketchier, riskier or worse product than a big business? I want to KNOW that my chickens are Mareks free. I want my customers to KNOW my flock is Mareks free. And if that costs me my birds, so be it. I won't have spread it to other people unwittingly, my customers face less risk, and I sleep easier knowing that I'm being responsible and not contributing to the spread of a deadly disease.

Don't get me wrong. If the vaccine weren't leaky and often unreliable I would be passionately advocating the use of the vaccine. A vaccine that produces a sterile immune response with no to low chance of reinfection is always one worth using IMO. But Mareks doesn't.

 

[cate1124]

Here’s some interesting (IMO. I’m weird lol) articles on it.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/tthis-chicken-vaccine-makes-virus-dangerous

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...s-enhance-spread-of-deadlier-chicken-viruses/

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/could-some-vaccines-make-diseases-more-deadly

Thanks so much for posting these links, KDOGG. I was unaware of this research, which is relevant as I consider adding chicks to my existing unvaccinated group of five older hens. I've queried two vets who have treated my hens for their opinion on getting the Marek's vaccine and will post again when I hear from them.

 

[cate1124]

Like I mentioned before - it depends largely on your goals. Some people here have mentioned hatcheries suggesting that people don't vaccinate their chicks. I know one vet, personally, that says if you aren't keeping them as pets don't use the Mareks vaccine. But again, most vets aren't trained to knowledge on chickens or their vaccines. And breeders are professionals. If you selected a random breeder and a random vet and asked them questions about chicken health most breeders would outclass the veterinarians any day of the week cause the vets aren't trained to know these things. The breeders HAVE to know these things. They're intimately connected to the state of chickens and chicken health in the united states and most keep up on new research and findings and methods.

In a small personal flock the main difference is knowledge. If your chickens are all vaccinated and they contract Mareks and, say, one dies (because the vaccine isn't perfect) or none die then you may have a flock that's sick (and therefore dangerous to other birds) and not know it. You may try to add unvaccinated birds, hatch chicks, or rehome your chickens with an undisclosed, deadly, highly contagious virus and that's a good way to spread the disease instead of combat it. You may even not take good biosecurity measures to not spread it to other flocks.
This can be a personal liability, but it can also be heartbreaking. You hatch a batch of new chicks and don't vaccinate and after months of raising them one by one they drop dead and you don't know why (until you do and it's too late). You decide to move into chickens for show or business and suddenly it's devastating.
I suspect many people who don't vaccinate for Mareks do it because they value the knowledge of there being such a serious problem so deeply that they would rather see some or all birds die than not know. It could be a personal responsibility thing or a moral imperative thing or whatever but they value that knowledge.

For me, I probably fall into that hobbyist breeder category. But why on earth should I, as a hobbyist, present a sketchier, riskier or worse product than a big business? I want to KNOW that my chickens are Mareks free. I want my customers to KNOW my flock is Mareks free. And if that costs me my birds, so be it. I won't have spread it to other people unwittingly, my customers face less risk, and I sleep easier knowing that I'm being responsible and not contributing to the spread of a deadly disease.

Don't get me wrong. If the vaccine weren't leaky and often unreliable I would be passionately advocating the use of the vaccine. A vaccine that produces a sterile immune response with no to low chance of reinfection is always one worth using IMO. But Mareks doesn't.

Such a thoughtful -- and thought-provoking -- response. Thank you.

 

[Kiki]

The price of that vaccine!! You think that's single dose? Most are.

No.