Vaccinating chicks?

[onyx2011]

Hello! Yesterday was my one year anniversary with my chickens, and the last two months were rough on my flock of 6. A predator snatched my beautiful leghorn, and then it turns out my chicken friend gave my flock Marek's. Her flock has history with the disease(she claims to have cured it, but as far as I understand, that's impossible...) and combine her lack of biosecurity and my ignorance at the time that such horrors even existed, and my handsome rooster had to be put down. It was awful, and I don't ever want to experience watching a chicken go through paralysis again. The four remaining hens seem to be getting along well and re-establishing the pecking order.

SO, I'm pretty sure my flock is considered carriers for life now, even though they aren't displaying any symptoms that Big Red did. I live in a rural swamp area, and I don't think a flock of 4 is quite safe and I would love to add more chickens anyways. (call me addicted, lol!) I found a local 4H club that is breeding Crested Cream Legbars and Svart Honas at decent prices ($15 a CCL pullet, and $15 straight run Svarts!)

However, when I messaged and asked if they vaccinate the chicks, I was told that no, they didn't. This little thing has me concerned, due to the fact that I'm 90% sure my flock has Marek's. My current flock was bought from Tractor Supply, and from what I know, those chicks get vaccinated.

If i buy these unvaccinated chicks, is it a death sentence? These chicks would be day olds. If it does result in death, could I vaccinate, or would the chicks be too old? If I could vaccinate these chicks, where would I buy the vaccinations? I have been steadily researching and have fallen in love with the idea of adding 2 CCL and a potential svart roo to my flock, but if it will only lead to misery, I can just restart the hunt and search elsewhere. Thank you and sorry if I rambled!

 

[lazy gardener]

I do not believe TSC vaccinates any of their chicks. If TSC management says they are vaccinated, I would want to see the invoice slip that indicates that to be the case.

Marek's vaccine is a leaky vaccine, meaning it does not kill the virus. Vaccinated chicks can and do die from Marek's disease, and they die much quicker than chicks that have not been vaccinated.

As for what you should do, I have no idea. If you choose to vaccinate your chicks, my understanding is that you must practice strict biosecurity for at least 3 weeks. This would include changing clothing and foot wear before moving from one flock area to an other.

Because of the below information, I will not vaccinate any of my birds, nor would I allow vaccinated birds onto my property.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/tthis-chicken-vaccine-makes-virus-dangerous

 

[Nambroth]

This might answer your questions. I covered "should I vaccinate?" and where you can get the vaccine. After dealing with Marek's, I will always vaccinate.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/

 

[onyx2011]

Argh, why must poultry have such a super virus?! This stuff is all just so overwhelming. I want to vaccinate due to the horrors I went through with Big Red, but honestly I'm now too spooked by the idea of incorrectly injecting the chick(or overdosing)and the strict biosecurity necessary. I know that I myself could handle being that secure, but the rest of my family doesn't take "chicken matters" seriously and I could see them petting one of the original flock and then going to play with the chicks. In my case, would it be pointless to even try due to how terribly contagious Marek's is along with my family's ignorance? If I don't vaccinate the chicks, are my original chickens in potential danger? Thank you for assisting me, and I have read "The Great Big Giant Marek's Disease" at least 12 times while trying to save Big Red. Very organized and helpful article!

 

[Nambroth]

Argh, why must poultry have such a super virus?! This stuff is all just so overwhelming. I want to vaccinate due to the horrors I went through with Big Red, but honestly I'm now too spooked by the idea of incorrectly injecting the chick(or overdosing)and the strict biosecurity necessary. I know that I myself could handle being that secure, but the rest of my family doesn't take "chicken matters" seriously and I could see them petting one of the original flock and then going to play with the chicks. In my case, would it be pointless to even try due to how terribly contagious Marek's is along with my family's ignorance? If I don't vaccinate the chicks, are my original chickens in potential danger? Thank you for assisting me, and I have read "The Great Big Giant Marek's Disease" at least 12 times while trying to save Big Red. Very organized and helpful article!

It is all very overwhelming, I know... you are not alone. I felt so helpless when I first started learning more than the bare basics of Marek's, after my rooster was diagnosed both via necropsy and via extensive DNA testing. It's what inspired me to try to put together all the information I could possibly find on Marek's, including reaching out to avian vets and researchers that study this disease in commercial poultry.
Unfortunately, almost all of the science we have on Marek's is based on commercial poultry and how those operations work, which is quite different than how most of us raise our backyard chickens, especially those of us that keep them as "pets with benefits"!
I can't tell you what to do, as vaccination (or not) is a personal choice and I'd never try to sway someone one way or the other. It depends on your goals for your flock and how much effort you wish to put into all of this.
I can tell you what I am doing, in case it is helpful. Please though, don't let me convince you one way or the other... do what you think is best for you and your birds.
This year is the first year since I have had confirmed Marek's disease in my flock that I am raising chicks. I purchased them vaccinated and shipped to my home as it was very important to me to make sure that they were properly vaccinated. Like you, I am not confident that I could do it properly myself as I have no experience administering vaccinations to chicks so small. I have them in a room in my house farthest from my entryway, in a brooder I sterilized with a viruicide before they arrived. When I take care of my adult chickens, I change into my "chicken clothes", wrap my hair up entirely in a hat, and take care of them. When I come back indoors and immediately change my clothes and remove the hat, and wash up immediately (face, hands, etc... anything exposed). This is a huge pain and I am honestly really looking forward to my chicks being a month old so that I can gradually start exposing them. Despite these efforts I am realistic; I know there is still a chance I could accidentally bring the virus in prematurely, and I also know that the vaccine is not foolproof and I might still lose (some). It would break my heart, but I love chickens too much to give up on them entirely. I'll attempt to expose them gradually in hopes that by the time they join the adults that they will have built immunity. It's not a perfect plan, but short of culling my existing flock (they are loved pets and are doing well, all around 7 years old now) and waiting for many years for any remaining virus on my property to die off, it's the best I can do.

One option you might look into is to call around and see if any veterinarians in your area would be willing to assist you by vaccinating the chicks for you. It would probably be for a fee, so that's a consideration. My vet offered to do this if I ever hatch my own, so there's a chance others might as well. A vet's office may also be better equipped to store the vaccine properly until you have chicks to vaccinate.

No matter what you decide, I wish you good luck!

 

[onyx2011]

It is all very overwhelming, I know... you are not alone. I felt so helpless when I first started learning more than the bare basics of Marek's, after my rooster was diagnosed both via necropsy and via extensive DNA testing. It's what inspired me to try to put together all the information I could possibly find on Marek's, including reaching out to avian vets and researchers that study this disease in commercial poultry.
Unfortunately, almost all of the science we have on Marek's is based on commercial poultry and how those operations work, which is quite different than how most of us raise our backyard chickens, especially those of us that keep them as "pets with benefits"!
I can't tell you what to do, as vaccination (or not) is a personal choice and I'd never try to sway someone one way or the other. It depends on your goals for your flock and how much effort you wish to put into all of this.
I can tell you what I am doing, in case it is helpful. Please though, don't let me convince you one way or the other... do what you think is best for you and your birds.
This year is the first year since I have had confirmed Marek's disease in my flock that I am raising chicks. I purchased them vaccinated and shipped to my home as it was very important to me to make sure that they were properly vaccinated. Like you, I am not confident that I could do it properly myself as I have no experience administering vaccinations to chicks so small. I have them in a room in my house farthest from my entryway, in a brooder I sterilized with a viruicide before they arrived. When I take care of my adult chickens, I change into my "chicken clothes", wrap my hair up entirely in a hat, and take care of them. When I come back indoors and immediately change my clothes and remove the hat, and wash up immediately (face, hands, etc... anything exposed). This is a huge pain and I am honestly really looking forward to my chicks being a month old so that I can gradually start exposing them. Despite these efforts I am realistic; I know there is still a chance I could accidentally bring the virus in prematurely, and I also know that the vaccine is not foolproof and I might still lose (some). It would break my heart, but I love chickens too much to give up on them entirely. I'll attempt to expose them gradually in hopes that by the time they join the adults that they will have built immunity. It's not a perfect plan, but short of culling my existing flock (they are loved pets and are doing well, all around 7 years old now) and waiting for many years for any remaining virus on my property to die off, it's the best I can do.

One option you might look into is to call around and see if any veterinarians in your area would be willing to assist you by vaccinating the chicks for you. It would probably be for a fee, so that's a consideration. My vet offered to do this if I ever hatch my own, so there's a chance others might as well. A vet's office may also be better equipped to store the vaccine properly until you have chicks to vaccinate.

No matter what you decide, I wish you good luck!

As much as I would love to vaccinate, I think that the strict biosecurity wouldn't be possible to achieve. I tried to explain to my parents the possibility of this, and they instantly talked me down and said it was dumb and "totally unnecessary". They also shot down the idea of having the brooder in my room to help maintain this security. (I'm a highschool senior that will be going to community college for two years)

If I vaccinate the chicks in some way, wouldn't it be more dangerous for them if they got exposed to Marek's prematurely? If so, I'll probably have to just suck it up, and have non vaccinated chicks and try not to get attached so quickly... thanks again for the help!

 

[Nambroth]

As much as I would love to vaccinate, I think that the strict biosecurity wouldn't be possible to achieve. I tried to explain to my parents the possibility of this, and they instantly talked me down and said it was dumb and "totally unnecessary". They also shot down the idea of having the brooder in my room to help maintain this security. (I'm a highschool senior that will be going to community college for two years)

If I vaccinate the chicks in some way, wouldn't it be more dangerous for them if they got exposed to Marek's prematurely? If so, I'll probably have to just suck it up, and have non vaccinated chicks and try not to get attached so quickly... thanks again for the help!

It is difficult when dealing with other family members that have different ideas than you do! Well, you know when you get your own place someday that you'll have the best flock of chickens ever (if you still want to keep chickens)! I know when I started looking for my own place, finding a place where I could keep chickens was a "must have", haha!

As far as vaccinating and then exposing prematurely, I'm not sure. I don't recall reading any specific literature that mentions this type of scenario. If they were vaccinated and exposed the same day or within a few days, I'd say that it's likely that the vaccine would simply be a waste of effort and expense. If they had a week (or better: three) then I'd say it might be worth it, but that's a very tough call! Ultimately it's up to you and your family. Good luck!