Vegans of BYC!!

[Chicken poppy]

Not quite, although I guess it goes together.
I know any good vegan (I won't go in to the bad ones, like some of them on yt) like all you guys, (and me when I was vegetarian) would put down an animal if it was suffering.
But I'm talking about eating those, which while they 'could' live a happy life, have something that isn't right about them.
For example, those which when they hatch need a lot of assistance, or a broody hen that kills her chicks.
If you keep them, and breed from them, the whole breed will start to take on those traits.
So they need to be culled, (as I see it) from the breeding program.
And while a few could be kept as pets, that would not be practical for all of them. (not enough funds to feed them, not enough room, etc.)
So if they need to be put down for those reasons (not for ill health) why not eat them?
Just some questions that I have been asking myself, as I work out why I do things, and what is right in my mind, as I get older.

I’m understanding now.

Well first, technically yes, you could, but there is a huge difference of being ethical and vegan.

At that point, you would say you are a cruelty free meat eater, as you put them down humanely and only do it if you feel they would suffer or cause harm to breeding with more problems down the line.

A vegan, while they don’t hurt animals, also don’t eat meat. It doesn’t really mix. If you told someone “Yeah, i’m vegan.” But then told them “Well, i do eat my birds if sourced appropriately, just not random birds.” You would get some weird looks and it would take a while to explain. Instead, pick a different diet “title”

A locavore, for example, eats from farmers market and locally produced food, not imported goods.

Or a flexitarian, who eats mostly vegan, but small amounts of meat or fish and still supports plant substitutes.

There are many, many more people don’t realize, you just have to do the research for what is more suited as a title. ( I say “you” but i mean people in general. )

 

[BelovedBirds]

@BelovedBirds, I have a question.
It seems to me, (as an omnivore) that a good argument for eating meat is the fact that unless you are going to let all breeds of animals go extinct, there has to be some breeding going on.

This is a really great question! I will note that my views have somewhat changed in recent months, to the point where I'm not completely against it, but I'll answer on the basis of factory farming.
So honestly, for the domestic species that we have bred for the purpose of meat, milk etc, I would have no problem with letting them eventually go extinct. I think a lot of those breeds have issues, due to fast weight gain etc. Those breeds that we created, I personally would have no problem with losing. That isn't all of them, mind you. But plenty of them. I think if this were to somehow happen, we could focus on healthier hardier breeds and more ethical conditions.

And there is always going to be just as many males has females, so what are you going to do with the males?
Yes, in some cases they can be kept in a bachelor flock, but in many cases this just isn't practical.

This is one of my biggest dislikes when it comes to commercial farming, for example with poultry and how many male chicks are culled in humanely. If the process were humane, I wouldn't have a big issue with it. But I think when you have such a massive farming operation, the welfare of the animals slips.
On homesteads, I dont have a problem, the welfare of the animals is easier to achieve. The biggest issue is the ethics of the breeding itself, which goes back to healthier breeds.

Also, if you keep those which are bad mothers, have deformities, etc. the whole breed is going to go downhill.

I'd say it depends, I'd personally want to keep the bad mothers and simply not breed them. Same with the deformities if the quality of the life is good enough. I'd understand if on a homestead this is not possible due to space, costs etc etc.
When it comes to factory farming, I really dislike this, because that is an environment which prioritises profit over the animals wellbeing, welfare slips, frequently and the whole thing is just using those animals, sometimes to the point of exhaustion, then sending them off to be slaughtered when they don't meet the mark.
I feel it goes past the point of feeding yourself and your family out of necessity, it becomes exploitation.
It isn't that I believe culling itself is wrong, its simply that I hate the environment and manner that its done in.
I hope that makes sense, kinda tricky to explain.

What are your thoughts on this, as a vegan? And how do other vegans of the more extreme kind think about it?

Extreme vegans would have a very different view, they believe that any use from an animal is exploitation and inherently wrong. So is the breeding of any animal for any purpose. This means that even someone who keeps chickens as pets cannot eat their eggs without exploiting their birds. They object to culling, and only support euthanasia when it's to end unfixable suffering. They give rights to animals which are quite equal to those they give people. They see them the same. For me my views are shifting to the welfare side, not the extreme animal rights side. In my view animal rights should simply be: the right to a good diet and water, the proper housing, healthcare (including euthanasia), company if relevant to species, and as humane a death as possible.
The extreme vegans also see all animal species the same, if anyone does not do this they are accused of specisism. And compared to human scenarios...
I don't see them the same, though I believe all deserve good care, some I feel okay with being farmed whereas others I do not. This is based on intelligence. So, I'd rather eat a chicken than a dolphin, I'd rather eat a snail than an octopus, a sheep rather than a dog or pig.
The smarter and more emotional the animal, the less ethical and humane I find it.

I have been wondering about it for rather a long time, so hope you don't mind me asking.

Not at all!
Sorry about such a massive reply

 

[BelovedBirds]

Not quite, although I guess it goes together.
I know any good vegan (I won't go in to the bad ones, like some of them on yt) like all you guys, (and me when I was vegetarian) would put down an animal if it was suffering.
But I'm talking about eating those, which while they 'could' live a happy life, have something that isn't right about them.
For example, those which when they hatch need a lot of assistance, or a broody hen that kills her chicks.
If you keep them, and breed from them, the whole breed will start to take on those traits.
So they need to be culled, (as I see it) from the breeding program.
And while a few could be kept as pets, that would not be practical for all of them. (not enough funds to feed them, not enough room, etc.)
So if they need to be put down for those reasons (not for ill health) why not eat them?
Just some questions that I have been asking myself, as I work out why I do things, and what is right in my mind, as I get older.

Incase you don't want to read my essay (lol)
Here's the short answer:
Strict vegans won't support this, if the animal had to be put down, they would bury the animal to let them "rest in peace".
If the animal was chosen to be culled due to imperfections, they would judge that very harshly and be against it

I have a more, I think, reasonable view. For me it depends on the environment and intention

 

[Sussex19]

Thank you @BelovedBirds and @Chicken poppy for your very interesting relies.
I wrote a long reply, but it all didn't come out right, and didn't make much sense. (too early in the morning, maybe!)
So I'll just leave it at that, but I read it all, and it all makes sense to me.

 

[DotToDot]

I’m not vegan, but I’m vegetarian and dairy-free. Almost the same. It’s never been a choice for me. My parents raised me vegetarian, and I’m lactose intolerant. I could start eating meat, but I’ve spent way too long at farms, and I’m not sure I could bear it.

 

[Henhouse Harlot]

@BelovedBirds, I have a question.
It seems to me, (as an omnivore) that a good argument for eating meat is the fact that unless you are going to let all breeds of animals go extinct, there has to be some breeding going on.
And there is always going to be just as many males has females, so what are you going to do with the males?
Yes, in some cases they can be kept in a bachelor flock, but in many cases this just isn't practical.
Also, if you keep those which are bad mothers, have deformities, etc. the whole breed is going to go downhill.
What are your thoughts on this, as a vegan? And how do other vegans of the more extreme kind think about it?
I have been wondering about it for rather a long time, so hope you don't mind me asking.

If I were in charge....?
I'd make sure that every chicken in the world had a SUPER awesome and happy life!!! If I could, I totally would. Then I'd cull the extra males by giving them to folks who eat meat ethically, as I see it.
But that's just me!

 

[Henhouse Harlot]

Oops, I probably should have made that private.

 

[BelovedBirds]

Oops, I probably should have made that private.

Not at all?

 

[JacinLarkwell]

If I were in charge....?
I'd make sure that every chicken in the world had a SUPER awesome and happy life!!! If I could, I totally would. Then I'd cull the extra males by giving them to folks who eat meat ethically, as I see it.
But that's just me!

Sounds like a good thought. That's what I do with my birds.

Hey @BelovedBirds , do you guys have Daily Harvest over there?

 

[BelovedBirds]

Sounds like a good thought. That's what I do with my birds.

Hey @BelovedBirds , do you guys have Daily Harvest over there?

What's daily harvest?