- May 16, 2008
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Quote:
What are you thinking? because summed up,that sounds like my bird. Sorry to hijack.
What are you thinking? because summed up,that sounds like my bird. Sorry to hijack.
Vet says her gizzard is impacted - please HELP !!!
- Thread starter simplychickens
- Start date
Marek's Disease can look like this, though this form is rare (it's the form I have) and I wouldn't say it was Marek's unless you have a problem with the virus. This particular form is always fatal and causes the kidneys to fail (hence the strange poop... pasty all over or high in off-colored urea, tell-tale sign of kidney failure). Don't jump to conclusions, but it's a possibility. If she gets worse, I'd put her down because she's likely in a lot of pain (IF, if if if it's this strain of Marek's). Send her body to a lab to determine whether or not is was Marek's, if you do put her down.
Is her face pale and sunken, with patches of color and pale here and there?
Is her weight quickly declining?
Is she unresponsive, fearful, or timid?
If she's improving at all it's not likely Marek's Disease.
Is her face pale and sunken, with patches of color and pale here and there?
Is her weight quickly declining?
Is she unresponsive, fearful, or timid?
If she's improving at all it's not likely Marek's Disease.
I had a hen that was ingesting an ungodly amount of grit but it was due to either a sour crop from it being impacted, or just started as an impacted crop that I didn't catch and turned sour.
My vet emptied what she could, had me isolate her so she couldn't get at any more dirt or grit, started her on an antibiotic, and an antifungal, and gradually we introduced soft foods.
Miss Prissy also has a plan for sour/impacted crop but you'd have to use the search engine.
Feel at the base of the crop, you may have what is a bunch of sand there even though the crop isn't distended, but if it can't pass, the hen won't eat. You may have to "lift" it slightly and massage it back gently.
Good luck!
Orchidchick
My vet emptied what she could, had me isolate her so she couldn't get at any more dirt or grit, started her on an antibiotic, and an antifungal, and gradually we introduced soft foods.
Miss Prissy also has a plan for sour/impacted crop but you'd have to use the search engine.
Feel at the base of the crop, you may have what is a bunch of sand there even though the crop isn't distended, but if it can't pass, the hen won't eat. You may have to "lift" it slightly and massage it back gently.
Good luck!
Orchidchick
Was an impacted gizzard a 'guess' on the vets part? How was he able to tell it was impacted? You cannot even see the gizzard. Is her crop large? That is the part that holds the food and is located on one side of her breast, you will notice a hard lump there.
To try and get her system going again, you can do either an epsom salt flush or molassis flush. Either will hopefully get the body processing better.
If I were to just make a 'guess' on your bird with the first symptoms listed, I would not rule out cocci. That is easily and inexpensively treated. You could get corid or sulmet.
To try and get her system going again, you can do either an epsom salt flush or molassis flush. Either will hopefully get the body processing better.
If I were to just make a 'guess' on your bird with the first symptoms listed, I would not rule out cocci. That is easily and inexpensively treated. You could get corid or sulmet.
- Thread starter
- #15
Hi - sorry it took me so long to respond! I'm at work now and only have limited time to be on the forum. I have to admit, something does seem fishy about what the vet said. I just can't put my finger on it ... I cannot piece it together, and greatly appreciate your help.
Here is what I've noticed:
Hen is considerably lively for being so thin/ill. Right now, we have her confined to a large cardboard box in the kitchen, but when we are home we take the screen off and she'll hop onto the edge. She hopped up on the edge to 'roost' last night. She is moving around, clucking softly when we come around and is still pecking around for food. We have a water dish in her box (i mixed some molasses with the water this morning), and also a dish of bran 'mush' mixed with mineral oil, some small bread pieces soaked with oil and then I mixed up some cream of wheat this morning and put a few little pieces in there. I'm just trying everything at this point to see what she'll eat. She was really excited about the 1/2 of apple I put in there and was pecking at that when I left for work this morning.
Her bowels are small, and seem to be happening less than usual. However, there is definite fecal matter (very dark) with a yellow, mustardy colored urine cap. She does seem more tired than usual - I noticed her take a few short naps yesterday, but that simply could be b/c we have her confined to a smaller space.
I have tried to feel around for lumps, and I can't distinguish anything too out of the ordinary. When I first found her on Sunday morning just sitting, I picked her up and felt absolutely nothing in her crop, so I tend to think it is not her crop that is impacted. However, I don't quite know what else to focus on ...
I am very worried about her, and really am having a hard time not knowing what is even wrong.
I appreciate your advice. Thank you, thank you.
Here is what I've noticed:
Hen is considerably lively for being so thin/ill. Right now, we have her confined to a large cardboard box in the kitchen, but when we are home we take the screen off and she'll hop onto the edge. She hopped up on the edge to 'roost' last night. She is moving around, clucking softly when we come around and is still pecking around for food. We have a water dish in her box (i mixed some molasses with the water this morning), and also a dish of bran 'mush' mixed with mineral oil, some small bread pieces soaked with oil and then I mixed up some cream of wheat this morning and put a few little pieces in there. I'm just trying everything at this point to see what she'll eat. She was really excited about the 1/2 of apple I put in there and was pecking at that when I left for work this morning.
Her bowels are small, and seem to be happening less than usual. However, there is definite fecal matter (very dark) with a yellow, mustardy colored urine cap. She does seem more tired than usual - I noticed her take a few short naps yesterday, but that simply could be b/c we have her confined to a smaller space.
I have tried to feel around for lumps, and I can't distinguish anything too out of the ordinary. When I first found her on Sunday morning just sitting, I picked her up and felt absolutely nothing in her crop, so I tend to think it is not her crop that is impacted. However, I don't quite know what else to focus on ...
I am very worried about her, and really am having a hard time not knowing what is even wrong.
I appreciate your advice. Thank you, thank you.
Quote:
LONG:
That is because it is not really a problem in chickens, unlike impacted crop. Did the vet take an x-ray? The gizzard can be seen with an x-ray or ultrasound. If your vet didn't do any imagery, then they were either confusing the gizzard and the crop, or you are confusing what they said. Or the vet is making a guess, but I am not sure why they would guess that as there are MANY reasons a bird might be skinny with scant droppings. Gizzard is inside the bird and really hard to feel from the outside.
The vet's opinion of 'it is only a chicken' is only valid if you agree. If you don't agree and you want a second vet opinion, find one that likes chickens, sees poultry on a semi-regular basis at least, and will treat it like a pet. If you agree that it is just a chicken, then cull and be done with it- as the resolution will not be an easy fix- you will need to work with this for days to weeks, and may still not have a happy resolution.
Gizzard: inside the bird, attached to the intestines- filled with grit/gravel, it grinds up hard food. Very muscular organ. The 'grinding stomach' Can get impacted in some bird like parrots due to underlying disease, not really a problem in chickens.
Crop: Between the mouth and stomach, basically a dilation in the esophagus- a skin bag to hold a large amount of food, which then slowly dribbles food into the stomach. Chickens can fill up their crop with a bunch of tasty food when they come across it, and the food is slowly fed to the rest of the GI tract over several hours. Easily felt at the base of the neck, more to the right. Impacted crop is a fairly common problem in chickens. Diagnosis is pretty easy- big crop, even after several hours of fasting (overnight is easy test). If this description fits with your bird- big crop that does not empty normally then keep reading:
Reasons why crop gets impacted:
1) Chicken eats a bunch of something non digestible like straw, wood chips, ect, or too much of something poorly digestible- like long pieces of grass or leaves. This material plugs up the outflow hole of the crop. They are hungry and eat, but very little can get out of the crop, crop fills up and gets stretched out, which can contribute to the problem of accumulating more junk. Giving chicken oils will probably not help with this- the non digestible junk need to be removed. Vet can do this with anesthesia and sew it back up, and help to provide special feeding instructions to get things going again. Do-it-youselfers will also sometimes attempt this with varying success. Care must be taken long term to not let the chicken have access to whatever it filled up with before.
2) Chicken ate something really rank, and the crop is 'sour' meaning has bacterial or yeast overgrowth, this is usually a big baggy fluid filled crop with minimal junk (hay, leaves, grass ect). Smells really bad. Unhappy crop loses it's ability to empty normally. These birds often feel pretty sick, and may not be trying to eat anymore. Vet would remove fluid with a tube and flush with saline until clean, and refill with electrolytes or very thin consistency food, give meds to decrease crop overgrowth and give you feeding directions. Do-it-yourselves have many recipes for cider washes, oil & massaging ect. Care needs to be taken to provide clean drinking water, non spoiled chicken snacks, good quality ration ect to help prevent recurrence.
3) chicken has some underlying problem that is hampering a normal GI tract emptying, and treating the crop will only be temporary.
LONG:
That is because it is not really a problem in chickens, unlike impacted crop. Did the vet take an x-ray? The gizzard can be seen with an x-ray or ultrasound. If your vet didn't do any imagery, then they were either confusing the gizzard and the crop, or you are confusing what they said. Or the vet is making a guess, but I am not sure why they would guess that as there are MANY reasons a bird might be skinny with scant droppings. Gizzard is inside the bird and really hard to feel from the outside.
The vet's opinion of 'it is only a chicken' is only valid if you agree. If you don't agree and you want a second vet opinion, find one that likes chickens, sees poultry on a semi-regular basis at least, and will treat it like a pet. If you agree that it is just a chicken, then cull and be done with it- as the resolution will not be an easy fix- you will need to work with this for days to weeks, and may still not have a happy resolution.
Gizzard: inside the bird, attached to the intestines- filled with grit/gravel, it grinds up hard food. Very muscular organ. The 'grinding stomach' Can get impacted in some bird like parrots due to underlying disease, not really a problem in chickens.
Crop: Between the mouth and stomach, basically a dilation in the esophagus- a skin bag to hold a large amount of food, which then slowly dribbles food into the stomach. Chickens can fill up their crop with a bunch of tasty food when they come across it, and the food is slowly fed to the rest of the GI tract over several hours. Easily felt at the base of the neck, more to the right. Impacted crop is a fairly common problem in chickens. Diagnosis is pretty easy- big crop, even after several hours of fasting (overnight is easy test). If this description fits with your bird- big crop that does not empty normally then keep reading:
Reasons why crop gets impacted:
1) Chicken eats a bunch of something non digestible like straw, wood chips, ect, or too much of something poorly digestible- like long pieces of grass or leaves. This material plugs up the outflow hole of the crop. They are hungry and eat, but very little can get out of the crop, crop fills up and gets stretched out, which can contribute to the problem of accumulating more junk. Giving chicken oils will probably not help with this- the non digestible junk need to be removed. Vet can do this with anesthesia and sew it back up, and help to provide special feeding instructions to get things going again. Do-it-youselfers will also sometimes attempt this with varying success. Care must be taken long term to not let the chicken have access to whatever it filled up with before.
2) Chicken ate something really rank, and the crop is 'sour' meaning has bacterial or yeast overgrowth, this is usually a big baggy fluid filled crop with minimal junk (hay, leaves, grass ect). Smells really bad. Unhappy crop loses it's ability to empty normally. These birds often feel pretty sick, and may not be trying to eat anymore. Vet would remove fluid with a tube and flush with saline until clean, and refill with electrolytes or very thin consistency food, give meds to decrease crop overgrowth and give you feeding directions. Do-it-yourselves have many recipes for cider washes, oil & massaging ect. Care needs to be taken to provide clean drinking water, non spoiled chicken snacks, good quality ration ect to help prevent recurrence.
3) chicken has some underlying problem that is hampering a normal GI tract emptying, and treating the crop will only be temporary.
- Thread starter
- #17
Yes, I know the difference between the crop and the gizzard, and the vet even drew a picture and pointed out the gizzard, so I am sure that is what he was talking about.
He did not, however, do an x-ray, and hardly spent much time with us at all. He basically acted like he knew exactly what was wrong, so in that moment, we beleived him. We've never had chickens before and were looking for an answer. However, the answer we got made me feel very uneasy and so I began doing research, which led me to start questioning the 'diagnosis'.
I am uncertain about the crop b/c it does not feel abnormal, and was in fact empty when I first found her on Sunday morning. SInce she's been in confinement and eating, it has filled back up. Yet, she still has the little abnormal droppings (dark fecal matter with mustardy yellow cap) and remains very thin.
He did not, however, do an x-ray, and hardly spent much time with us at all. He basically acted like he knew exactly what was wrong, so in that moment, we beleived him. We've never had chickens before and were looking for an answer. However, the answer we got made me feel very uneasy and so I began doing research, which led me to start questioning the 'diagnosis'.
I am uncertain about the crop b/c it does not feel abnormal, and was in fact empty when I first found her on Sunday morning. SInce she's been in confinement and eating, it has filled back up. Yet, she still has the little abnormal droppings (dark fecal matter with mustardy yellow cap) and remains very thin.
Sorry- I wasn't meaning you didn't know the difference- just writing out the options on what may have happened at the office. When I get started, I tend to write and write...
So we now have a bird that has a small crop, and will fill it up when offered food- if you withhold food, and the crop gets small- you can rule out impacted crop. I have never heard of a chicken with impacted gizzard, though I suppose it is possible.
So if you have a skinny bird, that eats and poops (and does not have an impacted crop) you now have to think of many many other issues that can make them skinny--- parasite load (fecal check or just do a broad spectrum deworming), tumors (won't know unless you do imagery or on necropsy- reproductive tumors are pretty common in older hens), organ failure in older bird (bloodwork), low chicken in the flock- too much stress/not enough food (confine with supportive care- she will make a miraculous recovery), nutrition issues (if feeding fresh and quality layer ration, this should not be an issue), external parasites- lice and mites (you can see these easily, and you or the vet would have likely noticed these), internal layer/egg yolk peritonitis (imagery, or find on necropsy, usually these girls haven't been laying eggs for months and have a distended belly), unusual presentation of a viral infection like Marek's (diagnosis on necropsy).
So we now have a bird that has a small crop, and will fill it up when offered food- if you withhold food, and the crop gets small- you can rule out impacted crop. I have never heard of a chicken with impacted gizzard, though I suppose it is possible.
So if you have a skinny bird, that eats and poops (and does not have an impacted crop) you now have to think of many many other issues that can make them skinny--- parasite load (fecal check or just do a broad spectrum deworming), tumors (won't know unless you do imagery or on necropsy- reproductive tumors are pretty common in older hens), organ failure in older bird (bloodwork), low chicken in the flock- too much stress/not enough food (confine with supportive care- she will make a miraculous recovery), nutrition issues (if feeding fresh and quality layer ration, this should not be an issue), external parasites- lice and mites (you can see these easily, and you or the vet would have likely noticed these), internal layer/egg yolk peritonitis (imagery, or find on necropsy, usually these girls haven't been laying eggs for months and have a distended belly), unusual presentation of a viral infection like Marek's (diagnosis on necropsy).
How is your RIR doing now? Did you ever find out what it was?
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