Viable treatment for Marek's Disease.

[Wyorp Rock]

Update: Other than adding links to research sources, I did not plan to make updates to this. However, while continuing to research and rereading prior research bases off comments, I decided that after initial dosing, a short term regimen might be necessary. The studies indicate an effectiveness decline after 96 hours (4 days). I thought it has been exactly 4 days since I gave her the 1 week follow up. So I dosed her and gave her an exam.



She's still thin, but she eats. She's still off lay, pair that with vision problems from the blind eye, a lesser appetite is expected. She's no longer losing feathers. Comb is still pale.



Here's the notable event. The gray scale on her eye is almost cleared and the cataract has shrunk to a pinpoint. I am shocked. Like 'No REALLY!'. How is that even possible? There is still a small area of gray scale on her pupil and her iris is no longer exactly gray. It was like gray/colorless but now it has a bit of orange tint (the original color). And she's tracking with that eye! Ya'll, I thought blindness was one of the things that didn't resolve. She has a whole special needs apartment setup because I thought it was permanent.

This will be interesting to see the outcome.

You are taking photos for documentation - the changes of the eye?

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

This will be interesting to see the outcome.

You are taking photos for documentation - the changes of the eye?

I had no idea it would clear up. It didn't occur to me to take a photo of something I didn't expect to change.

I'll go through recent photos to see if I managed to catch it in one. I'm not hopeful as she was keeping it closed most of the time.

I'll get a photo of the current condition tomorrow...if possible.

 

[Razzlefrazzle]

From what I read, it does NOT prepare the immune system for anything. It suppresses symptoms, mainly it prevents the tumors. But the disease causes organ failure, so liver failure is not impossible.

Those tumors are the manifestation of the disease in the visceral form, like neuropathy and paralysis are in the neural form. Vaccination (ideally) prevents the disease (in any form) from developing. The chickens are infected with the virus, but don't become sick from it when vaccinated (again, ideally). Vaccination works by introducing a harmless form of the virus to the immune system so when it is exposed to the real, disease-causing virus it has already built up resistance and can respond quickly.

I'm all for trying herbal remedies and hope your chickens improve, but I also think it's important that people know that the vaccine, far from being useless, is actually the easiest and most effective way to keep their chickens from dying of Marek's disease.

 

[BastyPutt]

the vaccine, far from being useless, is actually the easiest and most effective way to keep their chickens from dying of Marek's disease.

I am no vaccine person, but I would edit this to say "the ONLY way to keep....." even if Chinese skull cap would slow the progression, it wouldn't ever prevent it from manifesting.

Aside from good husbandry and flock control (quarantine new birds mainly) the vaccine is your only hope of prevention.

Again, there just aren't enough resources to continue develop the proper vaccines.

The flu vaccine for humans is constantly evolving because the flu changes. It needs to be reformulated every year - and because we don't know what the flu is going to look like exactly, we are a year behind on formulation - basically guessing as to what it will look like. And guess what, people still get the flu.

The Mareks vaccine does go through reformulation, but no where near the needed intervals and with no where near the funding. But it still protects thousands and thousands of birds and flocks a year and I would encourage anyone based on their flock goals to have their birds vaccinated.

On a side note - there is an article here on BYC, and incredible article, about a women, her flock with Mareks, and a local "immune" flock. I would encourage every person to read this article.

 

[BastyPutt]

Here it is.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...-i-learned-to-deal-with-mareks-disease.76944/

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I must say I'm not a fan of the Marek's vaccine.

The vaccine can help control the formation of tumors, but it does not prevent infection from the virus. The vaccine may suppress clinical symptoms. It does not prevent shedding.
There's been a LOT of threads over the years with folks having sick vaccinated birds, necropsy revealed a main cause of decline was Marek's. And to be fair, unvaccinated birds have become sick and died as well.

However, if one already has Marek's within their flock, then vaccinating chicks might be beneficial, but it is crucial that vaccinated chicks not be exposed (need to be completely quarantined) for a minimum of 2wks. This would be hard to do in a backyard setting.


The best thing that anyone can do is research on their own and decide for themselves whether vaccination is the right choice for their flock(s). There are a lot of studies published and available, it just takes a lot of time to wade through them.

Dust or dander from infected chickens is particularly effective in transmission. Once the virus is introduced into a chicken flock, regardless of vaccination status, infection spreads quickly from bird to bird. Infected chickens continue to be carriers for long periods and act as sources of infectious virus. Shedding of infectious virus can be reduced, but not prevented, by prior vaccination. https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/neoplasms/marek-s-disease-in-poultry


All MDV vaccines only prevent clinical symptoms, but do not prevent virus replication and shedding in the vaccinated host. While reduced shedding from vaccinated birds has been reported [87,88], these ‘imperfect’ vaccines still allow virus spread and evolution in the field, and are associated with the emergence of field strains with increased virulence https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7139298/

These results show that currently available Rispens CVI988 vaccine virus is shed in significant quantities from vaccinated chickens and transmits effectively between chickens. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23901761/


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17622613/

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Those tumors are the manifestation of the disease in the visceral form, like neuropathy and paralysis are in the neural form. Vaccination (ideally) prevents the disease (in any form) from developing. The chickens are infected with the virus, but don't become sick from it when vaccinated (again, ideally). Vaccination works by introducing a harmless form of the virus to the immune system so when it is exposed to the real, disease-causing virus it has already built up resistance and can respond quickly.

I'm all for trying herbal remedies and hope your chickens improve, but I also think it's important that people know that the vaccine, far from being useless, is actually the easiest and most effective way to keep their chickens from dying of Marek's disease.

I have 17 dead birds that were fully vaccinated.

Those tumors are the manifestation of the disease in the visceral form, like neuropathy and paralysis are in the neural form. Vaccination (ideally) prevents the disease (in any form) from developing. The chickens are infected with the virus, but don't become sick from it when vaccinated (again, ideally). Vaccination works by introducing a harmless form of the virus to the immune system so when it is exposed to the real, disease-causing virus it has already built up resistance and can respond quickly.

I'm all for trying herbal remedies and hope your chickens improve, but I also think it's important that people know that the vaccine, far from being useless, is actually the easiest and most effective way to keep their chickens from dying of Marek's disease.

I am no vaccine person, but I would edit this to say "the ONLY way to keep....." even if Chinese skull cap would slow the progression, it wouldn't ever prevent it from manifesting.

Aside from good husbandry and flock control (quarantine new birds mainly) the vaccine is your only hope of prevention.

Again, there just aren't enough resources to continue develop the proper vaccines.

The flu vaccine for humans is constantly evolving because the flu changes. It needs to be reformulated every year - and because we don't know what the flu is going to look like exactly, we are a year behind on formulation - basically guessing as to what it will look like. And guess what, people still get the flu.

The Mareks vaccine does go through reformulation, but no where near the needed intervals and with no where near the funding. But it still protects thousands and thousands of birds and flocks a year and I would encourage anyone based on their flock goals to have their birds vaccinated.

On a side note - there is an article here on BYC, and incredible article, about a women, her flock with Mareks, and a local "immune" flock. I would encourage every person to read this

I had no idea it would clear up. It didn't occur to me to take a photo of something I didn't expect to change.

I'll go through recent photos to see if I managed to catch it in one. I'm not hopeful as she was keeping it closed most of the time.

I'll get a photo of the current

I am no vaccine person, but I would edit this to say "the ONLY way to keep....." even if Chinese skull cap would slow the progression, it wouldn't ever prevent it from manifesting.

Aside from good husbandry and flock control (quarantine new birds mainly) the vaccine is your only hope of prevention.

Again, there just aren't enough resources to continue develop the proper vaccines.

The flu vaccine for humans is constantly evolving because the flu changes. It needs to be reformulated every year - and because we don't know what the flu is going to look like exactly, we are a year behind on formulation - basically guessing as to what it will look like. And guess what, people still get the flu.

The Mareks vaccine does go through reformulation, but no where near the needed intervals and with no where near the funding. But it still protects thousands and thousands of birds and flocks a year and I would encourage anyone based on their flock goals to have their birds vaccinated.

On a side note - there is an article here on BYC, and incredible article, about a women, her flock with Mareks, and a local "immune" flock. I would encourage every person to read this article.

The clinical studies show Chinese Skullcap stopping progression, not slowing it.

Clarify the point of quarantine? Once a bird is infected, they are infected for life and shed virus regardless of vaccination. Two weeks asymptomatic in segregation does what exactly?

The Marek's vaccine is and has always been made from a turkey virus that is harmless to both species.

Here it is.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...-i-learned-to-deal-with-mareks-disease.76944/

I read this and I agree. Everyone should read it. My favorite part is where she was advised NOT to start over, but breed the birds over 3 years old for birds resistant to the local strains.

My original birds were purchased from an online hatchery 2k miles away. Rookie mistake I guess. On the upside, the ones that are left turn 3 in November.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

This will be interesting to see the outcome.

You are taking photos for documentation - the changes of the eye?

Turns out I only had 1 photo of her prior to treatment and the eye is closed.

I do have a photo taken about a month prior to her coming down with symptoms, I am also posting the eye currently and her normal eye.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

So her eye now is the last photo or the middle one?

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

So her eye now is the last photo or the middle one?

The middle. The grayish one.