Virginia

[ApiaryandAviary]

Got to shut down and go out to lock up my chix.

 

[suyoder]

No, I'm purely asking about color... Not mixing breeds. what would be a color i could breed to a Red Cochin and still get colors that are accepted by the SOP? Like, obviously you can breed a splash to a black and get blue. Is there any other colors that work in a similar way?

Say: if i wanted to get self blue D'uccles, Porcelain D'uccles and mille fleur D'uccles, could i keep them all together in a mixed pen, and still get Porcelain, self Blue, and mille fleur? Or will some weird colors crop up?

 

[ApiaryandAviary]

No, I'm purely asking about color... Not mixing breeds. what would be a color i could breed to a Red Cochin and still get colors that are accepted by the SOP? Like, obviously you can breed a splash to a black and get blue. Is there any other colors that work in a similar way?

Say: if i wanted to get self blue D'uccles, Porcelain D'uccles and mille fleur D'uccles, could i keep them all together in a mixed pen, and still get Porcelain, self Blue, and mille fleur? Or will some weird colors crop up?

You want to know what mixes with a Red cochin and still meet the Anerican SOP? A Red Cochin.

 

[suyoder]

Thanks for replying A&A.... I got some good answers via pm messages too. I should have probably done a search about color percentages...I didn't realize that it would be an issue with different colors. I sure have not had it explained to me before, so not sure what posts you were talking about that you and Karen have explained.

please don't assume that I will or have thrown different colored cochins together. I havent, and won't - because i understand now a bit about color.

I am coming from a background with with Dog experience. if you breed a yellow dog to a chocolate dog, you get yellow dogs and chocolate dogs and black dogs - depending on whats in the pedigree. So i finally have in my heads that chickens are different!! good to know!

 

[ki4got]

Hypothetical genetic question. What would happen if I had a pen full of Cochin Bantams - with no two the same color. Would the resulting chicks be weird colors, or would they still be throwing SOP colors?

If that wouldn't work, what would be colors that would work with say the red Cochin? Or what about Birchen? Or perhaps Golden Laced?

you would get a huge variety of mixtures. yes, some colors can be crossed, like solid black with any of the black-based varieties, like blue/splash, mottled or barred, or the silver/gold versions of the same mutations (silver penciled/partridge, birchen/brown-red, silver laced/gold laced, Columbian/buff Columbian) but it would take a couple generations to re-solidify the ideal shading/colorations down the road, since the silvers might show some gold leakage, or the golden varieties may not be light/dark enough to meet the SOP, depending on the color variety.

 

[enola]

Boy am I glad that is settled!

 

[ki4got]

No, I'm purely asking about color... Not mixing breeds.

what would be a color i could breed to a Red Cochin and still get colors that are accepted by the SOP? Like, obviously you can breed a splash to a black and get blue. Is there any other colors that work in a similar way?

Say: if i wanted to get self blue D'uccles, Porcelain D'uccles and mille fleur D'uccles, could i keep them all together in a mixed pen, and still get Porcelain, self Blue, and mille fleur? Or will some weird colors crop up?

mixing cochins of various colors should produce cochins that are pure breed in type only but not in color. a red roo over all those other hens would not give you anything predictable.

if you're looking for a specific color, let me know because I do raise some of the harder to find color varieties, or know who does raise quality individuals.

usually crossing unrelated colors is done to improve the overall body type of one specific variety, then the offspring are bred back to that desired variety to improve the overall appearance.

I am breeding a nice sq buff (from Tom Roebuck) over some red hens that have great color but are lacking in type. the offspring are all over the place for color, ranging from a dark buff to medium red, but the conformation is much better than their mothers. the next generation will go back to an ok rooster (better conformation than mothers but not quite as dark red) and then the darkest reds will be put back with the buff again to continue improving type.

the best typed birds will be found among blacks, whites and mottled. but each of those colors is capable of hiding a multitude of other mutations that may or may not be beneficial to what you are wanting to produce, so a knowledge of poultry genetics is essential.

there's a link in my sig for an article I wrote a while back that may help you out.

Thanks for replying A&A.... I got some good answers via pm messages too. I should have probably done a search about color percentages...I didn't realize that it would be an issue with different colors. I sure have not had it explained to me before, so not sure what posts you were talking about that you and Karen have explained.

please don't assume that I will or have thrown different colored cochins together. I havent, and won't - because i understand now a bit about color.

I am coming from a background with with Dog experience. if you breed a yellow dog to a chocolate dog, you get yellow dogs and chocolate dogs and black dogs - depending on whats in the pedigree. So i finally have in my heads that chickens are different!!

good to know!

dog genetics are so dirt simple compared to chickens, where there are so many different groupings of mutations that may work together, against each other or create something entirely different when combined... again I suggest reading the article I wrote.

 

[suyoder]

Thanks very much ki4got. good stuff.

I'm not actually planning on doing it myself - I was just admiring all the different colors in cochins... and wondering what would happen if the colors were mixed.

random question that was not meant to cause friction - it was merely hypothetical. Thanks for pointing out the link... I will have to look at that.

 

[ApiaryandAviary]

Thanks very much ki4got. good stuff.

I'm not actually planning on doing it myself - I was just admiring all the different colors in cochins... and wondering what would happen if the colors were mixed.

random question that was not meant to cause friction - it was merely hypothetical. Thanks for pointing out the link... I will have to look at that.

Hello, oh, no friction. Just trying to explain and with each answer you would have a little more questions and statements and each question and statement kept us all going deeper and deeper. I know you learned something. Really at first I wondered if you meant sex linked? You and I have talked of that before. I have told you before there are usually lots of people on here giving help. The best chicken advice I have found is in the book. The book is at all bookstores and online at Amazon. There is the Idiots guide and for dummies books. They are easy to understand, easy to buy, costs are low and great resources. They are acurate. So many use for their own resources. I have spoken to you before about excerpts from books. I get it from the book and not an excerpt.

There are a lot of us that have or have had Cochin Bantams. They are great broody hens. Their temperment is sweet, they are beautiful cuddly fluffs of joy. I am not kidding about their being the best broody hens I have ever had. Mine were so dedicated it began to worry me that I might loose her. I had to intervene.

Please get one of those or both of those two inexpensive books and you will see what I am talking about.
Straight forward information. Good solid information. You will see where many get their information from.

Really tired and going to bed early. Good night.

 

[ApiaryandAviary]

Thanks for replying A&A.... I got some good answers via pm messages too. I should have probably done a search about color percentages...I didn't realize that it would be an issue with different colors. I sure have not had it explained to me before, so not sure what posts you were talking about that you and Karen have explained.

please don't assume that I will or have thrown different colored cochins together. I havent, and won't - because i understand now a bit about color.

I am coming from a background with with Dog experience. if you breed a yellow dog to a chocolate dog, you get yellow dogs and chocolate dogs and black dogs - depending on whats in the pedigree. So i finally have in my heads that chickens are different!! good to know!

Hello Sue,
I dont know who private messaged you but wished they had posted for all to read instead. Two heads are better than one and it might have clarified things, not muddied it all up.

Usually if they have something to add they do it on the forum. I live and learn. This is a good site to ask others and others get to be included and have input and input was certainly welcomed.

I know your responses really had me confused as I never knew which angle you were going to take next.

Really hope this time you buy at least one of the two book recommened back when I first met you on the site. Your close enough that you could drop by and ask or see. If you want the best, dont mix. When it goes to Cochin Bantams they are so very popular that I believe there is one for every color combination out there. A very large variety of colors. Pure breds. Perfected to standards. That is why I went for the Calicos long ago. They were not included. And they are what I love the most. Everyone thinks theirs is the best. And that is a good thing. I would not buy from someone that thought they bred rag muffins.

Strombergs has books on SOP. I think I read there are 85 color varieties of Bantams? There will be something there that is beautiful that you would want to work towards and shop around for the eggs from winners. Then go for the winners and buy eggs from them to hatch or buy live chicks from the winner's circle. Go straight to the source. Side trips may not prove themselves. I have gotten from the source and never regretted it. I have bought from those that set the standards and wrote the book on their breed. It is not unobtainable. It is very obtainable. Eggs ship and take as long as live chicks to get here.
If SOP is what your after, then go directly to the source.

You said you understand dogs. If you wanted a champion you would go to someone with champions, right? Not to someone that got from them and bred to theirs. Champions bred to champions usually make champions and then there is a snag once in a while but nor likely. Right?

So if it is perfection you want then go directly to the winners circle. They have done all the work and may have written the book.

Good luck on you chicken journey.