Want privacy in package delivery? Better choose carefully!

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It looks to me like UPS has said for years (link is from 2005) that they'd ship as long as it was an approved transaction between licensed agents AND that they'd cooperate with the authorities to go after those who are breaking the law:



http://www.carolinapeacemaker.com/News/article/article.asp?NewsID=4436&sID=3&ItemSource=N

It's all on that link, but here's a snippet:

Peggy Gardner of UPS says that her company is in meetings with Spitzer and that those meetings are open and cooperative.

“We do ship tobacco products, but with restrictions. Anyone that ships with us has to be a licensed dealer or distributor and if they are shipping cigarettes to individual consumers they can only do that through a contract,” Gardner explains. “We’re concerned whenever its alleged that a shipper uses our system for illicit purposes. We’re equally committed as anyone else to cooperate with authorities to make sure that our system is used as it’s designed.”


Wonder if those websites were giving any warnings to those spending money with them?
 
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Here is UPS's privacy policy:

http://www.ups.com/content/corp/privacy_policy.html


I'm not trying to sit in judgement of taxes or of those who seek to avoid them. The original topic was privacy. Who knows what was in the packages. Were there ciggarettes? Certainly many had cigarettes, but some could have had cigars, pipe tobacco or promotional goods such as apparel, banners etc, which would have had a different tax rate, if any.

Any person who bought the tobacco, was responsible to pay any due tax within the guidlines of the municipality in which they reside. This is not the responsibility of the seller or the company who delivered the package. Lacking this, how would one know by looking at a cardboard box whether or not the recipient paid the applicable taxes any more than one could tell which way the train went by looking at the rails on which it traveled?

Has anyone here bought tobacco on an Indian reservation (for consumption there, of course), and left with any remaining unused portion?

Again, I will repeat; This is a privacy issue and UPS violated their own privacy agreement. If people were shipping dead bodies or stolen organs I would expect any shipping company to cooperate with legal authorities within the constraints of written law.

Furthermore, how many of you in the Pacific Northwest have purchaced something in Montana or Oregon? Did you then pay the sales tax on that item when you returned to your home state?

Moreover, how many of you have purchaced something over the internet? Did you later calculate the sales tax on that item using the price you paid (less shipping) and send a check to your state?

How would the shpping company know from a box whether it contains a purchaced item or something that was a warranty exchange?

So, for those who value their privacy (not those who don't, do as you wish), consider with whom you do business.
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PS. Did my coworker get felony charges? I don't know and I wouldn't ask. Does ordering tobacco from another state constitute a crime so great as to lose as many privleges as a felony charge would bring is a topic for another thread.
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Okay so they KNEW that this company/customers were wanting to use their system for "illegal' stuff... and that eventually that would put them in the fire... and they signed on to handle their shipping anyways... all the while telling them "here's our privacy policy we'll protect you, unless we're ORDERED by a judge"... then when the time came they didn't wait for a judge like their customers expected they just blew their privacy policy to hades and handed over anything they were asked for? Pretty obvious who's side they're on.

I totally understand if you're ordered, threatened with prosecution (obstruction?)... that's one thing. Handing over stuff that you said you would protect just because someone smirk's at you... not cool.

Of course the people ordering, ones who did know it was iffy, asked for problems.

And the government spending this much time, resources, etc to track down "tax cheats" while one is currently in charge of our Treasury... not cool. Nevermind all the criminals running loose, our school systems being a mess, etc. How much money you reckon is spent on this, so they can collect X... do we end up actually making any money off this, break even, or lose... and is it worth it in light of our country's other problems? I'd rather see $1mil spent to make sure a murderer, rapist, etc stays locked up (or dead) than I would to see Joe Smoe pay a $100 fine for smoking... it'd be great if neither type happened, awesome if everyone paid their due and hurt no one... but I for one consider a killer more of a threat, and thus worth more resources to stop.
 
It appears that there already IS an ongoing suit regarding this matter hence UPS' decision to comply.

http://www.tobacco.neu.edu/litigation/resources/internet/NYC_Internet_Case.pdf

Look, I am not into gestapo tactics in any manner, I strongly believe in people's privacy rights. However, when people know they are skirting the edge of legality they must know that they run risks. Every day people all over the country drive over the speed limit. Yet, we know if we get caught there will be penalties. When we do get caught we gripe and complain and call the cop names and question his motives, but very few of us desire to see all laws regarding traffic speeds be removed.

I just don't think it is reasonable to expect privacy under certain circumstances. It is as constitutional for the government to interfere in interstate traffic as it is for you to demand protection from unreasonable search and seizure. It isn't the constitution that is in question it is the state's policy you should look to. And BTW UPS' privacy policy has MANY exceptions which allow them huge legal wiggle room in choosing to err on the side of compliance with any laws if they choose to do so.

I am not advocating a side here, this issue just caught my curiosity. Look not to the 4th amendment, look to the 14th and 15th.
 
Oh so they DID have a warrant and UPS was just following a judge's order. Totally different ball of wax.
No company should destroy themselves, go to jail, etc to protect a criminal customer.

I'm one who believes your rights stop when they step on mine... these people's privacy rights stopped the minute that they caused UPS to be sucked into it.

As to legality, I've never visited or used one of those companies... do they actually tell you it's illegal? That you could get in deep doodie? Or do they let folks think that because they're in business (still) it must be legal??
 
Besides, here is the phrase in UPS' policy (bolding mine)


We collect and store information about every package we handle so that we can efficiently provide the package delivery services demanded by our customers. We use information about our customers, their packages, and their shipping activity to provide or enhance the services we make available to our customers, communicate with our customers about additional services they may find of value, satisfy our legitimate business interests (including performing trend analysis and market studies), set prices, establish credit, fulfill a Contract of Carriage or Service Agreement, accomplish the billing function, and comply with government regulations. Although government regulations vary in the many countries in which we operate, they frequently include the reporting of information to transportation, safety, customs, and other regulatory agencies.

I looked and Fed Ex's is practically word for word the same.......​
 
Seems to me that NYS is going after the companies under the RICO act, which is interesting. I didn't see in the link anything about a court order for UPS, it is clear that the internet companies knew they were violating the law.

That being said, NYS and NY City have outrageous taxes. When I lived there, I went to New Jersey to Christmas shop, after all that's where the malls are. Often cops were stopping people as they returned to NYS to collect the taxes that would be owed if bought in NY. The interesting thing is that the taxes generally only apply to things that are bought and used within the state, so gifts that I was shipping out of state should be exempt. I was never stopped. But my point is that NYS has high taxes and a history of strong arm tactics to collect taxes.

Personally, I'd be ticked about a company that gives out my information without a court order.
 

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