wazine given - should should one expect in the 14 days?

[RobB]

I have 7 hens, rhode island reds. They are free range on about 1/4 acre fenced off, picked them up at 2 months and now they are about 4 1/2 months. I'm getting 5 eggs per day.

Last week we noticed in one of the droppings a couple small worms about the size of rice. We believe it is a round worm. I got the wazine-17 and mixed 1 ounce per one gallon and the 7 birds drank this is 24 hours, I'm in Redding, Calif and it's typically over 100 in the summer months and closer to 110 last week, so they drink a lot of water.

It's been 3 days since the wazine and now I'm seeing more worms in some of the droppings.

My question that I could not find in all my searching on here (thanks for the valuable information!) is do they shed the worms for a few days or week etc? The worms are small and alive or moving somewhat, the chickens have no interest in them so that's good. Is the 14 day basically the time they will get rid of the live worms in their bodies?

I was using straw in the coop, and now use the pine shavings and straw for nest box only, I would change it once a week, in my area it's hot and low humidity and everything dries out quickly in the summer.

after the 14 days we plan on the ivermectin drops on each bird.


Thanks for any feedback on this.

 

[threehorses]

Worms the size of rice can sometimes be tapeworms. So if it was, that's a worm that wazine doesn't get... however there's an option.

Wazine is meant to be repeated as it only kills adult worms. THe worms you're seeing - that's good. Those are the paralyzed worms that are being shed by your birds. So your birds had roundworms and the adults are leaving.

in 2-4 weeks, you might instead of ivermectin want to go back and worm with fenbendazole as it is said by some sites to possibly have tapeworm effectiveness. You'd have to repeat worm with wazine anyway as the larvae aren't effected by wazine and only are once they're adults. But using a followup of fenbendazole will kill the larvae AND adults and now possibly tapeworms. But if you already have the 5% ivermectin pour on, use that. If you see any more rice-sized worms, check them carefully and compare to online photos of tapeworm "segments".

As for shedding, they can shed the worms for a week or so. You can help facilitate the process by giving a gentle cleansing flush (not a strong treatment flush) of 1/8th teaspoon of molasses, 1/2 jar of babyfood (freeze the other half for the followup worming), cooked oatmeal to feed 7 birds, and 3 tablespoons of yogurt. The molasses will flush the system, the applesauce will cleanse the system and feed good bacteria, the yogurt is the good bacteria that will help replenish the gut, and the oatmeal...well birds just love it.

I make mine more dry than I'd eat so that the birds are more tempted to eat it.

Your bedding change sounds awesome - the dryness will help reduce parasite loads.

 

[RobB]

Hi thanks for the response,

we have not yet purchased the ivermectin. I think the fenbendazole will take out certain tapes as well as round worms, so that is the way we can proceed.

My wife did ask can we take the dropping to the Vet and i guess they could positively identify the type of worm to be sure? Is this common to do? lol

What's the best way to buy this fenbendazole? local tractor supply? or can you point me to a online site that can be purchased?

Also what type, strength dose should i be getting?


Thanks again!

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
You can ask the vet specifically to do a "fecal egg count" for usual worm checks of a dropping that you can't see worms in. They can check for the shed worms. This is a much more reliable way to check for worms. A regular "fecal" doesn't work, so make sure you ask for the fecal egg count specifically. And yes if you took the rice-sized ones to the vet they can tell you if it's a tapeworm or a different worm. The larger worms, if round, are definitely treatable with wazine - as they're shedding. It's the ones before the worming that are a concern in case they're tapes.

Now - if the worms previous to worming were larger, you'd be able to tell on your own because (forgive the analogies) roundworms and other worms are like spaghetti (round), and tapeworms are like fettucini (flat).

SafeGuard is found at most feed stores either as a paste for horses and cattle (same label), or as a liquid for goats. It's really very common. For your size flock you could simply buy the paste and put a BB-sized piece in the mouth of each bird. Or you can mix that with water and crumbles to make a mash, or do the water/crumbles/goat-safeguard as a mash, or use the goat-SafeGuard liquid straight in the beak.

I like the paste idea as it's harder to aspirate a bird and then you know how much each bird gets. Paste is harder to spit out.

DOSAGES:


Horse/cattle paste used directly: BB sized bit in the beak of each bird.

Horse/cattle paste or 10% goat worming liquid SafeGuard used as a mash
Using in the mash (paste or liquid)

10% solution is mixed as follows:

MSUCares says: "One-day Treatment: 1 oz Safeguard or Panacur per 15-20 lb feed
Dissolve the fenbendazole product in one cup of water. Mix this solution well into the feed and give to the birds as their only feed source for one day. When completely consumed, untreated feed can be given. Be sure that the commercial medication contains 10% fenbendazole."

SafeGuard horse wormer and SafeGuard liquid goat wormer are 10% (be sure to check the label) so each can be used. Liquid goat wormer is probably easier to use. Here's an example of the jar:
http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=2&pf_id=0029013

I broke it down into smaller feeding amounts:

One ounce = 2 tablespoons. So 1/2 tablespoon for 1/4th a cup of water mixed into 3-4 pounds of feed, or 1/4th a tablespoon for 1/8th a cup of water mixed into 2 pounds of feed.

Using SafeGuard goat liquid 10% directly (From Brieanna's mom's vet visit https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=2756597#p2756597)

The prescription was called Fenbendazole Oral Suspension -- I was able to find this exact stuff at Wilco in Canby this evening. It was with the goat dewormer and the brand is called Safe-guard Dewormer for Goats. The 4.2 oz bottle cost $26.00 and does not expire until 11/2012 which will last a long time. When the doctor prescribed this for Starfire she said it was a very safe drug to use. The dosage she had me use was as follows:

.2 ml for my smaller banty chicken (2 to 3 pounds-ish).
.4 ml for my 4 to 5 pounds-ish hens.
.6 ml for my larger girls -- about 6 to 7 pounds-ish.

We put the medicine in a little syringe and squirt it in the chickens mouth. It actually goes in pretty easily -- the trick is trying to get their beak open and insert the medicine when they are exhaling.... ...

We were to do this dosage for each chicken for 4 days in a row for a deworming treatment. And not to eat the eggs (or feed them back to the girls as this could possibly be re-introducing the drug to them through their eggs) for 14 days.

Anyway, like I said, I am not sure how many times per year I should do this but from what I am researching it looks like twice per year. This is what I was instructed to do and this is what I found on my own so use this information as you feel necessary!!! ;-)

The wormers - what the bottles/tubes look like This isn't a recommendation of suppliers, just a picture.

Goat wormer: http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=2&pf_id=0029013
Horse wormer: http://www.horse.com/Safe-Guard-BBL13.html
Cattle wormer: http://www.tractorsupply.com/livest...-guard-livestock-dewormer-paste-290-g-2207933

 

[RobB]

Well we will call the vet tomorrow to see what the options are.

Another thing came up we did read some post on here that they have seen maggots in the chicken poop, I'm wondering if that could be it?

We did see a lot of fly's around when we first got them and then they died off. I can check each bird, we actually can hold each them except for one and they look healthy, I'm wondering about the one bird that stays away and i can't hold, I will corner her in the morning and see if there's any signs of any visual problems with her.

I'll report back.

Rob

 

[NotTheMomma]

Are you positive it's not fly eggs, or maggots? Rice size in chicken poop sounds more like maggots.

 

[threehorses]

Were the "more worms" also rice sized? Or longer? Maggots are really bad this summer and it only takes a few hours for them to be laid in droppings.

 

[RobB]

Yes the "More worms" looked identical to the others. Small actually a bit smaller than rice size, round and moving a bit. Nothing more than 1/8 inch so far. If they are in the poop what does this mean? We gonna call our cat vet tomorrow and see if they can or can recommend someone to do the fecal count and id what these "1/2 size rice things are"

Thanks

Rob

 

[RobB]

well we will try to take a sample out to the vet in our area this week.

I did find this picture on the web and it's basically what we are seeing, looking at this what would you say they are?

The poo is this picture is a little darker than our birds but the white things are pretty much it, we really do not see all the white poo either.

Some wiggle a bit when they 1st come out. I would say they are about a 1/8 of an inch.

thanks again

 

[threehorses]

Those look like tape segments to me. Yeah, they definitely do. That requires fenbendazole or pyrantel pamoate to treat. But of course, most of treating for tapeworms is actually trying to reduce the "middleman", the things that spread the tapes. Fleas, earthworm feeding, beetles, ants, etc - these all ingest the eggs of the tapeworm and thus, when ingested, release the egg into the body cavity of what will become the host animal - in this case, the chicken. USually it's beetles and worms for poultry owners.

Definitely the digestive tract is irritated as evidence by the slimey, mucous texture of the droppings (and it's slightly abnormal color). Definitely I would give yogurt daily to help that.

Whether or not fenbendazole actually treats tapes is debatable, though MSU states that it can. Most times the pyrantel is used. I've never seen a chicken dosage on it myself. Ivermectin certainly does not work for tapes.

The evidence of these segments mean that at least this bird has a whole tapeworm (at least one) inside and the segments (each of which is infective and does not die outside the body, unlike regular worms) has its own set of reproductive organs and will dry up (to look like rice grains) and wait there til picked up.

May I use this photograph? A trip to the vet would be a good idea because even though I highly suspect these are tapes, there are likely other worms too (whose eggs you'd see). I bet if your cat vet can do a little googling, he/his techs should be able to do the fecal egg count.