We’ve had a devastating few weeks 😔

[MamaBirds_Quail]

As soon as the weather changed here we began having rat issues in the quail pen— like, tunnelli g under 12” buried concrete pavers and chewing holes in buried hardware cloth issues— they killed 16 birds before I entirely gave up on our ground pen and scooped the remaining birds into a pop up dog kennel in the secured garage while I brainstormed a total 180 plan B for them.

I also hired a premiere pest company to bait, trap, and do exclusions on the entire property, that work is ongoing.

I ended up building a heavily reinforced raised pen in our old garage (which I at some point plan to convert to a greenhouse) it’s 4’ off the ground and so far they’ve been rat safe (it’s been 3 weeks now I think? The rats have TRIED, I caught 2 under the pen, but no casualties or injuries.)

They now have 1/4” hardware cloth on the front also (it’s already quarter inch on the other sides, I ran out and wanted to get the up off the ground so we used chicken wire for one night)

But now that they felt safe again, my scarlett roo went BERZERKER and scalped 5 hens and killed a younger/submissive roo — the ratio in the remaining group had been 9 hens, 3 Roos. I know he did the scalping because I had to pull him out one night when I went to feed them he was being VIOLENT! But, he’s also the only roo I had left from my original 10 birds after losing all my favorites to rodents and I couldn’t bring myself to process him.

Here’s a quick shot of the GORGEOUS asshole when I put him in timeout before any of the real murdering began

Now I’m down to 5 birds… 4 from my original 10 (go figure!) and a younger roo. And I was met with 3 eggs this morning!

I fairly emotionally did this with the eggs

because we’ve just lost so many birds recently and I’ve poured so many hours into engineering ways to keep them safe at this point I feel committed… what are the odds that first eggs will be fertile? Am I wasting my time? Should I process my pretty rooster since he’s a serial killer or are there other ways to protect the birds I should look into? Should I just give up on quail entirely?!

Be honest y’all, this has been brutal and I say that with an animal science degree, and a decade plus work history in municipal shelters and veterinary fields — THEY JUST KEEP FINDING NEW WAYS TO DIE!

 

[FunClucks]

I'm so sorry you've been dealing with these things!!! Heartbreaking!!!

I have no answers or advice for you, but I'm sorry it's been so hard. Sending you supportive thoughts.

 

[007Sean]

As soon as the weather changed here we began having rat issues in the quail pen— like, tunnelli g under 12” buried concrete pavers and chewing holes in buried hardware cloth issues— they killed 16 birds before I entirely gave up on our ground pen and scooped the remaining birds into a pop up dog kennel in the secured garage while I brainstormed a total 180 plan B for them.

I also hired a premiere pest company to bait, trap, and do exclusions on the entire property, that work is ongoing.

I ended up building a heavily reinforced raised pen in our old garage (which I at some point plan to convert to a greenhouse) it’s 4’ off the ground and so far they’ve been rat safe (it’s been 3 weeks now I think? The rats have TRIED, I caught 2 under the pen, but no casualties or injuries.)
View attachment 3343283
They now have 1/4” hardware cloth on the front also (it’s already quarter inch on the other sides, I ran out and wanted to get the up off the ground so we used chicken wire for one night)

But now that they felt safe again, my scarlett roo went BERZERKER and scalped 5 hens and killed a younger/submissive roo — the ratio in the remaining group had been 9 hens, 3 Roos. I know he did the scalping because I had to pull him out one night when I went to feed them he was being VIOLENT! But, he’s also the only roo I had left from my original 10 birds after losing all my favorites to rodents and I couldn’t bring myself to process him.
View attachment 3343292
Here’s a quick shot of the GORGEOUS asshole when I put him in timeout before any of the real murdering began

Now I’m down to 5 birds… 4 from my original 10 (go figure!) and a younger roo. And I was met with 3 eggs this morning!

I fairly emotionally did this with the eggs
View attachment 3343294because we’ve just lost so many birds recently and I’ve poured so many hours into engineering ways to keep them safe at this point I feel committed… what are the odds that first eggs will be fertile? Am I wasting my time? Should I process my pretty rooster since he’s a serial killer or are there other ways to protect the birds I should look into? Should I just give up on quail entirely?!

Be honest y’all, this has been brutal and I say that with an animal science degree, and a decade plus work history in municipal shelters and veterinary fields — THEY JUST KEEP FINDING NEW WAYS TO DIE!

All I can really say is; "sometimes this is the way things go....it's not always 'roses' when raising any gamebirds.
And just because you have a degree, or many years of KSA's (knowledge, skills, abilities), they will always be a challenge to you but it does get a little easier the longer you raise'em!
If you have the space and funds, I would look into building or have built a larger enclosure for you're birds. Sometimes the only thing you can do with an aggressive bird is to either re-home it, or process the aggressors. Adding hide-aways, perches, brush, plants to break up 'line of sight', will help alleviate some if not all of the aggression in the majority of cases.

Don't give up! You'll gain valuable experience from these adventures. I think the hardest part of raising gamebirds as a 'newbie' is understanding they are not like chickens, and as such, can not be raised in the same manner.
Because everything in the world loves to eat quail (especially predators) it is imperative that a secure enclosure be designed and built.

As far as the eggs being fertile?....they may be or they may not be....you'll need to candle them around day 5 or 6 to see if there is any development. Usually when they first start to lay the reproductive tract hasn't fully matured, give them at least 2 weeks after they start laying to be at least reasonably sure that they have mated and the eggs should be viable, or you can crack a few open and check for the 'bullseye',, indicating a fertile egg.

 

[MamaBirds_Quail]

All I can really say is; "sometimes this is the way things go....it's not always 'roses' when raising any gamebirds.
And just because you have a degree, or many years of KSA's (knowledge, skills, abilities), they will always be a challenge to you but it does get a little easier the longer you raise'em!
If you have the space and funds, I would look into building or have built a larger enclosure for you're birds. Sometimes the only thing you can do with an aggressive bird is to either re-home it, or process the aggressors. Adding hide-aways, perches, brush, plants to break up 'line of sight', will help alleviate some if not all of the aggression in the majority of cases.

Don't give up! You'll gain valuable experience from these adventures. I think the hardest part of raising gamebirds as a 'newbie' is understanding they are not like chickens, and as such, can not be raised in the same manner.
Because everything in the world loves to eat quail (especially predators) it is imperative that a secure enclosure be designed and built.

As far as the eggs being fertile?....they may be or they may not be....you'll need to candle them around day 5 or 6 to see if there is any development. Usually when they first start to lay the reproductive tract hasn't fully matured, give them at least 2 weeks after they start laying to be at least reasonably sure that they have mated and the eggs should be viable, or you can crack a few open and check for the 'bullseye',, indicating a fertile egg.

Thank you for that reassurance; I don’t mean to imply that I wouldn’t struggle because of my degree by any means, more that I didn’t walk into this unaware of the realities of livestock husbandry and how heartbreaking it can be and even with that this past month has been a real challenge. I just keep feeling like I’m failing them

The pen they have now is 10’ x2.5’ and under 2’ tall which I had been calculating as enough space for ~20 birds, does that seem wrong for a raised pen? I may just build a small pen for this too right now, I do have a bunch of branches I’ve added and boxes for hiding butbthe remaining birds have NO evidence of pecking… is it possible yes just figured out that’s not necessary to mate?

He and my older birds were hatched end of July so they’re 4ish months, the Pearls were hatched mid September so they’re probably closer to just coming into laying. These are the first eggs for anyone but they’ve all been in distress (and also without supplemental light) until 3ish weeks ago so while these are our first eggs, I imagine they are fully developed, yes?

I’ll candle in a few days and see what we get, I may keep adding eggs I find to the bator for a bit… I’m not sure exactly how that will go, trying to grow out chicks in winter but I guess it can’t really go worse than this autumn? fingers crossed!

 

[QuailQueen3]

As soon as the weather changed here we began having rat issues in the quail pen— like, tunnelli g under 12” buried concrete pavers and chewing holes in buried hardware cloth issues— they killed 16 birds before I entirely gave up on our ground pen and scooped the remaining birds into a pop up dog kennel in the secured garage while I brainstormed a total 180 plan B for them.

I also hired a premiere pest company to bait, trap, and do exclusions on the entire property, that work is ongoing.

I ended up building a heavily reinforced raised pen in our old garage (which I at some point plan to convert to a greenhouse) it’s 4’ off the ground and so far they’ve been rat safe (it’s been 3 weeks now I think? The rats have TRIED, I caught 2 under the pen, but no casualties or injuries.)
View attachment 3343283
They now have 1/4” hardware cloth on the front also (it’s already quarter inch on the other sides, I ran out and wanted to get the up off the ground so we used chicken wire for one night)

But now that they felt safe again, my scarlett roo went BERZERKER and scalped 5 hens and killed a younger/submissive roo — the ratio in the remaining group had been 9 hens, 3 Roos. I know he did the scalping because I had to pull him out one night when I went to feed them he was being VIOLENT! But, he’s also the only roo I had left from my original 10 birds after losing all my favorites to rodents and I couldn’t bring myself to process him.
View attachment 3343292
Here’s a quick shot of the GORGEOUS asshole when I put him in timeout before any of the real murdering began

Now I’m down to 5 birds… 4 from my original 10 (go figure!) and a younger roo. And I was met with 3 eggs this morning!

I fairly emotionally did this with the eggs
View attachment 3343294because we’ve just lost so many birds recently and I’ve poured so many hours into engineering ways to keep them safe at this point I feel committed… what are the odds that first eggs will be fertile? Am I wasting my time? Should I process my pretty rooster since he’s a serial killer or are there other ways to protect the birds I should look into? Should I just give up on quail entirely?!

Be honest y’all, this has been brutal and I say that with an animal science degree, and a decade plus work history in municipal shelters and veterinary fields — THEY JUST KEEP FINDING NEW WAYS TO DIE!

Oh wow! I am so sorry that you are having such a difficult time! I will weigh in on one issue that may help. I have a Wynola Ranch 3-tier cage. I have not had any rodent issues. I have done some upgrades to the cage with pen dividers and awesome new watering troughs. It’s a great setup! I call it “The Ferrari” of quail cages, truly beautifully designed with superior functionality with coated pvc floor wire, angled flooring so the eggs roll down to an egg catch gutter, food and egg cover, generous feed troughs, nice poop trays. It’s an amazing vertical setup housing up to 54 quail on a footprint of 36 inches wide by 30 inches deep.

Don’t give up!

 

[MamaBirds_Quail]

Oh wow! I am so sorry that you are having such a difficult time! I will weigh in on one issue that may help. I have a Wynola Ranch 3-tier cage. I have not had any rodent issues. I have done some upgrades to the cage with pen dividers and awesome new watering troughs. It’s a great setup! I call it “The Ferrari” of quail cages, truly beautifully designed with superior functionality with coated pvc floor wire, angled flooring so the eggs roll down to an egg catch gutter, food and egg cover, generous feed troughs, nice poop trays. It’s an amazing vertical setup housing up to 54 quail on a footprint of 36 inches wide by 30 inches deep.

Don’t give up!

I will for sure be putting this on at least my wish list! I think I want to see if I can weather the regular winter challenges— frozen water, low light, cold in general, etc— since were in New England but if we make it to spring I’m going to work on more/better solutions for our remaining birds, and any new hatches.

We had SUCH good luck with the two hatches (10/10 hatches survived to adulthood in the first clutch, and an astounding 23/26 eggs hatched from the second with 19 surviving to adulthood— even through a round of coccidia at 10 days!!) it still feels unreal that only 6 of those 29 remain I really let them down, I feel horribly.

 

[MamaBirds_Quail]

Here are my 6 warriors, who are SHOCKINGLY— mostly because I’d have bet all my money that giant wild/falb in the back was a hen— 3 Roos, 3 hens

I’ve added 3 new hidey boxes, and a bunch of evergreen brush hanging from the top of the cage for cover… should I do more to separate/protect the hens for now? Maybe rotate the Roos in with them one at a time?

Should I just pick one roo and process the other two? I’m open to all options, honestly. I just can’t do more senseless death

Yea they’re picking over potatoes/roasted veggies and cornbread from thanksgiving in the photo… I figured it couldn’t hurt to feed them all extra well to encourage them to be nice, also!

 

[Boppo]

Sending you good wishes! It's so hard to lose them to predators. and then to have that bad boy start acting out. Sean gives very good advice, and very heartening. So sorry for your losses.

 

[007Sean]

Thank you for that reassurance; I don’t mean to imply that I wouldn’t struggle because of my degree by any means, more that I didn’t walk into this unaware of the realities of livestock husbandry and how heartbreaking it can be and even with that this past month has been a real challenge. I just keep feeling like I’m failing them

The pen they have now is 10’ x2.5’ and under 2’ tall which I had been calculating as enough space for ~20 birds, does that seem wrong for a raised pen? I may just build a small pen for this too right now, I do have a bunch of branches I’ve added and boxes for hiding butbthe remaining birds have NO evidence of pecking… is it possible yes just figured out that’s not necessary to mate?

He and my older birds were hatched end of July so they’re 4ish months, the Pearls were hatched mid September so they’re probably closer to just coming into laying. These are the first eggs for anyone but they’ve all been in distress (and also without supplemental light) until 3ish weeks ago so while these are our first eggs, I imagine they are fully developed, yes?

I’ll candle in a few days and see what we get, I may keep adding eggs I find to the bator for a bit… I’m not sure exactly how that will go, trying to grow out chicks in winter but I guess it can’t really go worse than this autumn? fingers crossed!

Yes, raising gamebirds can be very rewarding and frustrating, all at the same time. I have two degrees and 55 years of KSA's but these things happen to me too!!! Just not very often now days. Failure to thrive, predators, aggressive birds, and unknown causes of sudden death are all part of raising gamebirds.

Having strict biosecurity protocol in place will go a long way in preventing diseases. The hardest part for me is having genetic deformities, I hate to dispatch chicks that hatch with deformities....but I also know it's necessary some times.
The more time you spend with the birds, just watching them....the easier it is to tell when somethings not right with them. They will show subtle clues to the state of their health if you pay close attention.

As far as 'adding new eggs' to the incubator every time you find them, is not a good idea. You'll have staggered hatches by doing so and that usually turns out bad for the chicks and for you too! Best to just collect the eggs for 1 week, then incubate those eggs together.
HTH

ETA - The pen they have now is 10’ x2.5’ and under 2’ tall which I had been calculating as enough space for ~20 birds, does that seem wrong for a raised pen?
That space would be adequate for you're remaining 6 birds....but I wouldn't try to have 20 Valleys in that small of a space/enclosure.

 

[MamaBirds_Quail]

Yes, raising gamebirds can be very rewarding and frustrating, all at the same time. I have two degrees and 55 years of KSA's but these things happen to me too!!! Just not very often now days. Failure to thrive, predators, aggressive birds, and unknown causes of sudden death are all part of raising gamebirds.

Having strict biosecurity protocol in place will go a long way in preventing diseases. The hardest part for me is having genetic deformities, I hate to dispatch chicks that hatch with deformities....but I also know it's necessary some times.
The more time you spend with the birds, just watching them....the easier it is to tell when somethings not right with them. They will show subtle clues to the state of their health if you pay close attention.

As far as 'adding new eggs' to the incubator every time you find them, is not a good idea. You'll have staggered hatches by doing so and that usually turns out bad for the chicks and for you too! Best to just collect the eggs for 1 week, then incubate those eggs together.
HTH

ETA - The pen they have now is 10’ x2.5’ and under 2’ tall which I had been calculating as enough space for ~20 birds, does that seem wrong for a raised pen?
That space would be adequate for you're remaining 6 birds....but I wouldn't try to have 20 Valleys in that small of a space/enclosure.

Thank you for this Sean I do enjoy having them… I personally loved it more when I could go sit in their pen (I had a camping chair in there and used to drink my coffee while tossing them mealworms every morning. It was a lovely little ritual) but I would rather them be safe.

It turns out the egg question was moot since I haven’t gotten any more eggs since! Maybe those came from the murdered girls and these ones are still traumatized? I’m going to candle the 3 I got tonight since it will be 4.5 days and from my record of my last hatches I could clearly see veins by then. We shall see! — I’ve been wondering what I will do to grow out only 1-3 chicks in January in New England… would it be absolutely unhinged to put them at the bottom of our budgie cage (the ground space is 2’x3’ and the budgies really don’t use the bottom half) until they’re grown?! I feel like the answer is “obviously, yes” but also, it’s making so much sense to me right now! Maybe I’ll make a new post about it and gather opinions.