What am I dealing with?? I've lost 5 birds in 2 months

[EMS83]

I feel like a bad flock keeper and want to throw in the towel at the moment.

1) 5yo Black Australorp rooster; 9yo Buff Orpington hen; 2-5yo Black Australorp hen; two 2yo Golden Comets

2 & 3) *Rooster just slowed down gradually; got less feisty, lost feathers, stopped eating, and eventually just died in July. He felt a normal weight (heavy; he was a big boy).
*In August, one of the Golden Comets just turned up dead; no signs or symptoms. She felt really light.
*A few weeks ago, Buff Orpington got what I thought were fight wounds around her beak; a little torn and swollen, so we separated her. The wound healed, but the swelling never went down, and she basically did what the rooster did, but more quickly. Normal weight.
*A few days ago, I discovered the Black Australorp hen dead in the coop; the only potential sign is she stopped roosting the few nights before she died. I would have to pick her up and set her on the roost. But I have market lights in the coop and thought it was a case of stranding. Both feet curled up under her. Lighter than some of the other birds, but still in the normal range.
*Two nights ago, the other Golden Comet wouldn't roost. About an hour ago, I found her dead in a nest box. One left curled, the other straight/stretched. Normal weight; almost heavy feeling. Her vent was a bit red and swollen around the top, but not prolapsed or enlarged.
Note: I don't tag them, and it's hard to tell same-breed hens apart, so I'm assuming the ones that didn't roost were the same ones that died.

4) No other birds are behaving the same way that I can tell; I'll add a note if any aren't roosting tonight.

5) The only sing of trauma was the Buff Orpington's beak area.

6) No known cause.

7) They have 2 5-gallon waterers; I put ACV in them when I realized the Orpington was probably sick. They were on half 22% Faithway layer pellets and 1/2 Healthy Hen, and then garden scraps. Mainly peppers. My son feeds them, so I'm not sure if the two most recent stopped eating or not. I did recently switch them back to all 22% because it's a little cheaper and I was dealing with egg eating and hoped a change would fix that. It stopped, so either it was the feed or the Orpington; I separated her around the same time I switched their food.

8) The three this week have all had some form of greenish diarrhea.

10 ) I'm just trying to figure out what's going on; if it's Marek's or Avian flu, I don't think there is a treatment. I just need to know what I'm dealing with and what to expect. Also, if it's either of these, is it safe to bury them? My county wants us to bury all critters.

11) I've attached pictures of today's casualty and Orpington's face.

12) 80 sqft hoop coop for 30 hens, 8 nest boxes, around 20ft of roosting bars, pine shavings for bedding, deep litter method (shavings added every 7-10 days) -- they only sleep and nest in the coop; 625 sqft attached outdoor run, mulched but could use more, mulch is from trees we've had cut on the property. Run is covered with 1/2" bird net tented with 1x2s.

 

[coach723]

80 square feet for 30 hens is pretty small.
The bird pictured with the beak/wattle injury, hard to say, could have gotten caught on wire or feeder, once bleeding others would peck at it and make it worse. Her upper beak was a bit overgrown as well.
If you have the body(s) of the most recent, then getting a necropsy from your state lab is the best way to find out for sure. Some of the birds you lost were old enough that reproductive problems could have been a cause, those include various cancers, infections, and can cause wasting and weight loss. Marek's and Lymphoid Leukosis are viral and can also cause wasting, lymphoid leukosis symptoms sometimes looks like Marek's. It's entirely possible that everyone was different and distinct from the others, but without necropsy it's impossible to know. If there is a virus at play, it would be a very good thing to know that. Many state labs are reasonable, you can call yours and get particulars, and if close enough you may be able to drop off rather than ship.
https://www.metzerfarms.com/poultry-labs.html

 

[EMS83]

80 square feet for 30 hens is pretty small.
The bird pictured with the beak/wattle injury, hard to say, could have gotten caught on wire or feeder, once bleeding others would peck at it and make it worse. Her upper beak was a bit overgrown as well.
If you have the body(s) of the most recent, then getting a necropsy from your state lab is the best way to find out for sure. Some of the birds you lost were old enough that reproductive problems could have been a cause, those include various cancers, infections, and can cause wasting and weight loss. Marek's and Lymphoid Leukosis are viral and can also cause wasting, lymphoid leukosis symptoms sometimes looks like Marek's. It's entirely possible that everyone was different and distinct from the others, but without necropsy it's impossible to know. If there is a virus at play, it would be a very good thing to know that. Many state labs are reasonable, you can call yours and get particulars, and if close enough you may be able to drop off rather than ship.
https://www.metzerfarms.com/poultry-labs.html

I updated the post; they only sleep and nest in the coop. They're in the run all day every day. I let them out by 7:00 and don't close them up until after they've put themselves to bed.

The closest lab is 90 minutes away. Which isn't bad, but my life doesn't allow me to randomly make that trip. I'm pretty sure they want the bird within 24-48 hours. And I already buried her. But I'll keep it in mind if I lose another one, thanks!

 

[Susan Skylark]

Necropsy is the best diagnostic tool in your arsenal, especially if you can get it to a lab or know what you are looking at. It is not bird flu, no respiratory signs and your whole flock isn’t dead. Possibly mareks, it can be insidious but odd so many birds in quick succession. Are you feeding a 22% protein feed? Seems kind of high for laying hens, I feed that for my quail but they need 20% plus. One problem with over feeding nutrients is it can predispose you to something like a clostridium (it thrives in excessive nutrient rich environments). We call it over eating in cattle, it kills suddenly, usually a bird or calf every couple days, maybe a little belly ache or not feeling well twelve hours prior or no signs at all, they are just dead. I ran into a bit of it (suspected at least) with my 3 day old brooder chicks, I had 20% mortality on day 3 in two broods, I was feeding a 28% game bird starter but switched to 21% feed for other reasons and haven’t lost a brooder chick in the last year. It usually kills the biggest, fastest growing calves. This may be your bad guy, in cattle we can vaccinate but there’s nothing for birds, only environmental and nutritional management: keep things clean and don’t over feed carbs and protein. It is susceptible to beta lactams (penicillin) and cephalosporins but usually by the time you treat the bird is too far gone to save. Hard to say but a possibility.

 

[EMS83]

Necropsy is the best diagnostic tool in your arsenal, especially if you can get it to a lab or know what you are looking at. It is not bird flu, no respiratory signs and your whole flock isn’t dead. Possibly mareks, it can be insidious but odd so many birds in quick succession. Are you feeding a 22% protein feed? Seems kind of high for laying hens, I feed that for my quail but they need 20% plus. One problem with over feeding nutrients is it can predispose you to something like a clostridium (it thrives in excessive nutrient rich environments). We call it over eating in cattle, it kills suddenly, usually a bird or calf every couple days, maybe a little belly ache or not feeling well twelve hours prior or no signs at all, they are just dead. I ran into a bit of it (suspected at least) with my 3 day old brooder chicks, I had 20% mortality on day 3 in two broods, I was feeding a 28% game bird starter but switched to 21% feed for other reasons and haven’t lost a brooder chick in the last year. It usually kills the biggest, fastest growing calves. This may be your bad guy, in cattle we can vaccinate but there’s nothing for birds, only environmental and nutritional management: keep things clean and don’t over feed carbs and protein. It is susceptible to beta lactams (penicillin) and cephalosporins but usually by the time you treat the bird is too far gone to save. Hard to say but a possibility.

Oh dear. I hadn't thought of that! I'll get them 16% next time.
Is it a good idea to go ahead and treat the whole flock with either penicillin or cephalexin? Would I need a vet to prescribe it?

 

[coach723]

No, I would not treat them that way. You need to know what you are treating for before just randomly trying to give them antibiotics. The wrong medication could make things worse.

 

[EMS83]

No, I would not treat them that way. You need to know what you are treating for before just randomly trying to give them antibiotics. The wrong medication could make things worse.

Fair point. Thank you!

 

[coach723]

Most layer feeds are 16%. Many of us feed in the 18 - 20% range with no problems. When you start going higher than that, long term, it could cause problems for chickens. Some of the game birds need the higher protein. I've been feeding 18% for years and it's fine. I don't use layer feed because I have mixed ages and sexes and the roo's don't need the extra calcium in layer feed (can cause kidney problems long term) and neither do growing out chicks that aren't laying yet, or older hens that are out of lay for molt or because of the short days of winter. So I feed an all flock that is 18% protein all the time and just have oyster shell in separate feeders so that those who need it can take it. Has worked well for me for a long time. If they are out of flock raiser I will get grower in the 18 -20% range until I can get the flock raiser again.
There are a lot of things that can kill chickens, when it's a mystery, it's highly recommended to have a necropsy so that you aren't guessing or making assumptions. Many things can look the same. I've had birds die for no discernible reason, and the only answers come from necropsy. Most of the time I do my own now, but when a virus or bacteria is suspect, the labs are the only way to know that for sure.