What are differences between buying from a hatchery versus a breeder?

[rodriguezpoultry]

Help in finding Bourbon Red Turkeys:
http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/Turkeys/BRKBourbonRed.html

See the names just below the pictures? You can google the names along with the turkey and be able to get their locations.

 

[gumbii]

you can also tell on the crest... i noticed on cochins... breeder cochins vs hatchery cochins have huge differences like, leg feathers, roundness of tail, size of crest, color of eyes... there are so many differences... some are hard to tell the difference, like OEGB and other game birds... i can't tell them apart...

 

[Omniskies]

Hatchery birds are to breeder birds what backyard mutts are to farm bred working dogs. There are a lot of people who have mutts, and mutts are great dogs. But a short haired yellow mutt isn't a Labrador; a big white mutt isn't a Great Pyrnees.

Hatcheries don't breed for quality - they breed for quantity. They don't even breed for production, because assuming that they breed for production assumes that they carefully select which hens in the barn they will be keeping back. They don't. There's a flock of a few hundred birds in a barn that eggs are gathered from. Those eggs are hatched and the flock raiser gets a batch of them back in late summer to raise again. No culling is done based on performance, size, or appearance. It's just a flock of birds that kinda look alike.

Hatchery birds tend to have roughly the same body type with various colors. Painting the body some washed out shade of buff makes it a Buff Orpington, throwing some muddied stripes on it makes it a Barred Rock, making it reddish turns it into a Rhode Island Red. The birds may be lovely, but they have absolutely nothing to do with what the breed is about.

The individual who posted the Barred Rocks showed a great example of how Barred Rocks at the hatchery have the wrong body type. Look at how the tail sets on the breeder bird - low and flat. Look at that raised up tail on the hatchery bird. Barred Rocks aren't supposed to have a curvy body. It doesn't matter if that makes the mutt bird pretty - there are a lot of mutt birds that are pretty. But call it what it is: a pretty mutt. Not a lovely Barred Rock.

Hatcheries get away with selling poor quality, mixed birds as rare breeds or the real deal and it's kind of annoying.

Appenzeller Spizhaubens are a good example. Hatcheries crossed Polish into their Appenzeller flocks to boost their flock numbers and make more money. You can tell by looking at the big poofy topknot that hatchery stock has. The birds are pretty, but not the real deal.

Dominiques are another good example of mutt birds. Most hatchery stock Dominiques have horrible combs because hatchery stock Barred Rocks have been mixed in for the sake of making a quick buck. What you end up with are birds with floppy combs with body types nearly identical to Barred Rocks, which adds to the confusion when people try to figure out what's the difference between the two. The pictures found here: http://www.dominiquechicken.com/Dominiques_and_Barred_Rocks.html shows a very, very, very clear difference between the two breeds. You won't find either of those breeds properly represented at a hatchery.

Back to the production thing, as I said, hatcheries don't breed for production. They can't - they're not set up to make it feasible (there may be exceptions to the rule, but those are likely few and far between). The only place where they can produce hatchery birds would be their hybrid flocks which burn out extremely fast. This means that a lot of qualities that were favored by specific breeds are lost on hatchery stock. Things like rapid feathering or rapid growth (to get the chicks out of the brooder faster or to process the birds quicker), meatier bodies (for the roosters), or good egg size, etc.

If you want pretty chickens that lay eggs, get something from the hatchery. If you have your heart set on those lovely Delawares or some nice Gold Laced Wyandottes then go through a breeder. Breeders have the actual breeds - hatcheries have pretty chickens that lay eggs. You're going to pay more with a breeder because they put more into their flock to get you the real deal. Just like you'll pay more for a nice true-to-type working dog than you will pay for the cheap puppies being sold in the Wal-Mart parking lot.

 

[speckledhen]

Sometimes, a better bird will come from hatchery parents, but it's sort of a crap shoot. Best to start with better parents, and even though there will still be many culls, the progeny are more likely to look the way they should for their breed. For example, you see this BR rooster that punky posted the picture of? He was owned by my friend Kate (helmstead on BYC) and he is the sire of my Becca and Amanda. He was a McMurray hatchery Rock. The tail set is quite common in hatchery Rocks, but is quite high for the standard. His daughter, Amanda, has the best barring of all my BR hens, very fine, and she is a round, chunky girl, not narrow bodied like many I've seen. Most folks are fine with the run-of-the-mill BRs and I love mine, but there is something about the fine, precise barring of the old BR lines that just is so satisfying to see.

 

[syble]

I agree with all thats been said but let me stress a different part, selection. As you know there is a standard of perfection (SOP) that dictate the ideal specimen for each breed. A hatchery may at some point have acquired stock from a reputable breeder to initially start their flock. Keep in mind that breeder would never have sold their best stock, they always keep it for themselves. Now in a case where a hatchery was to say we need a large amount to set up a breeding flock for our hatchery, that breeder might in turn do their breeding for the year and sell the hatchery all their culls, they would be the cheapest for the hatchery to buy and they would need alot. So the hatchery ends up with leftovers for a base flock.

A breeders flock however is created/maintained completely differently. The breeder gets a hold of stock that follows the standard and is clear from dq's(or at least nothing major) from another breeder, who is often times met at a local poultry show, or through a breed club, or a local feather fanciers club. They breed as many chicks from their original stock as they are able to grow out. In the case of long maturing dual purpose fowl like orps, wyandottes and RIR, they may have the majority of those birds for over a year. They will cull relentlessly for disqualifying defects, which can be wide ranging (white legs instead of yellow, rose comb instead of single comb, wrong colour). The major DQ's are somewhat easy and you can often pick chicks out for alot of them, and have many of the most noticeable ones out of the flock by say 3 months. A good breeder will make sure that those DQ carrying birds don't end up in peoples flocks on accident and get breed to show birds. The rest that are left out are following the SOP so they have to grow out further.

So a breeder who wants to keep the best birds for breeding can end up feeding a large amount of birds for a full year before culling again. The breeder then has to look very carefully at what they have and what the SOP says they need. Needs to rate the cockerels because they are culled hardest. Many breeders only keep a couple, yet theoretically half of what they raised will be male. Some they will be able to sell with left over hens, but many will end up culled. You have to be very particular when doing final evaluation, it takes a lot of time, you look at everything, general type, color, feather type, do they have enough or too much fluff, are the legs the right color, is the comb the right size, type, color, is it balanced? are the wings carried right? is the tail to big or too small, is it carried too high or low. Is he wide enough and big enough, or in some cases, is he too big?

The breeder has to do the same to the pullets too. Though a breeder will likely keep more of the pullets, so some are a bit easier on them. Some breeders breed in pairs or trios only. They spend a lot of time matching birds up to fix flaws or improve traits. Say a rooster is incredibly typy but a bit small, no problem, pair him up with a massive hen that can use some refinement. Have a rooster that is too dark in color? Pair him with a light hen. It can go on and on forever!

A breeder raises a lot of birds, then selects only the best of those offspring to put into their breeding program for the following season. They match it to the SOP and continue on with what the bird was meant to be not what happened to come out.

A hatchery has a rough idea of what that breed is supposed to be, they may have made the effort to get somewhat proper stock to begin with. And as a result, the offspring are rooughly what they are meant to be. What they miss are all the little things... They missed when that wrong comb type poped up, or where the feathering went on some of their feather footed breeds.... Some of it is just natural selection. Sure that hen is a bit smaller then average, but she lays alot, almost twice as much as the average hen for that breed, so in the resulting generation, she will have more chicks then the other hens, and may pass on that faster laying trait. Same thing can happen with the males, you have a big fluffy, massive bodied roo that is truer to type then his closer feathered leaner brother, but hes faster, and doesn't have all that fluff holding him back... So he fathers 3/4 of the chicks and the better roo only gets 1/4.... This type of thing happens all the time in nature its the classic survival of the fittest.

It's our job as breeders to keep the balance on what nature intends and what needs to happen to have a classic bird. At some point a breeding group of chickens can move out of the acceptable realm of a breed standard and no longer be considered that breed as per the SOP. But to someone who is new to chickens and just starting out with their first "pure bred chickens" they may not realize that their buff rocks stopped being rocks when they had white legs... Dosent make them any less of a bird, just makes them not up to standard. Dose a backyard hobbiest need pure bred show quality birds to put eggs on the table, heck no! If all they are looking for is eggs, go to the nearest feed store and get some chicks there, they produce well and are well suited to your area.

BUT....

Speaking from experience having come from the hatchery stock (specifically barred rocks), I went as a kid to my first poultry show, all excited that Henrietta (ya i know original, but i was a kid), my favorite and prettiest hen was gonna win me a ribbon. Imagine my shock comming in the next day to see her at the bottom of her class! Whats more is that the hens next to her (of exhibition quality) were gigantic! Thats when a nice fair director talked to me and my dad about how there are differences between sources, and its all about what you want to do with your chickens that decides where you want to get your stock from.

For me, I like to breed, i like eggs, and i like to breed to the standard even though i don't show often. It gives me a goal so when i raise 100 chicks, i have something to go off of to decide why i cull 3/4 of what i raised, and know that i am helping to keep the breed the way it was envisioned to be.

But for my neighbour who just wants a flock of pretty chickens to get assorted eggs from, why would he want to pay $6+ per chick from a breeder that are straight run (which means he'll loose half to being males) He'd be better off getting a fancy breed assortment from a hatchery that will send him females only and for a couple bucks a piece.

I do know other people that go to poultry sales (the breeder sales not the auctions), go around and pick out any hen that they like the looks of. They like knowing that they have to standard birds, it gives them a lot of variety (different personalities, different sizes, habits, shapes colors...ect). I put that on par with a person who buys a AKC Great dane of excellent show confirmation and fixes it as a family dog. Nothing wrong with that, they just like to have the real McCoy!
Sib

 

[punky rooster]

Nice post omniskies and I agree

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Ask and you shale receive.

Hatchery "Rhode Island Red" Rooster

Breeder Rhode Island Red Roosted (Rose comb)

Breeder Rhode Island Red Roosted (Single comb)

Hatchery "Rhode Island Red" Hen

Breeder Rhode Island Red Hen (Rose Comb)

Chris

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Very nice post syble and

.

 

[syble]

thanks rodriguezpoultry

Good pic comparison there Chris, mind if i comment on them?

For the RIR roo, notice on the hatchery bird how the color is uneven? the breast and thighs are a light brown color while the hackles are distinctly darker? Notice how scrawny his tail is? To be honest that isnt the worst hatchery RIR roo i've seen. Many have really high tails (which although pretty are not right at all for the breed standard). Also notice the leg horn body style. hes slim. Now when you compare him to the breeder bird, hes radiating mass. he screams a big powerful meaty bird. Look how thoroughly dark mahogany his feathers are, and the over all quality of feather. Nice full tails held at proper angles.

For the RIR hatchery hen, again look at the color, sooo light! she could have isa red in her or any other production red in her. And look at the overall body of her, she's lean and leaning towards leghorn again. her tail is held high but in her defense she looks alarmed. Now look at that breeder hen, uniform dark glossy mahogany. and again a big massive looking bird, not lean looking. in fact the body is almost brick shaped. big deep breast and all. Looking at the 2 of them, hypothetically, which bird would you want as a broody hen? I'd take the breeders clutch any day! She'd likely have a bigger clutch and keep them well with all that feather and mass.
Sib

 

[new chick 203]

Quote:
But in the dog world, mutts are thought to be healthier than pure breed dogs because of the inbreeding. It sounds like you all are saying that in chickens it's the opposite. If it's my priority to have a healthy bird with longevity, and secondly a good looking bird I should find a breeder, correct?