What are differences between buying from a hatchery versus a breeder?

[Nostalchic]

I have some GLWs and Partridge Rocks from McMurray that are really beautiful and look very close to standard, and the Cochins are also lovely, sweet, and very good mama's. They get their eggs come from a variety of sources, I know, so it probably varies quite a bit. I'm sorry to hear about the Hamburgs, though, I was thinking of getting a few of those.

 

[smarsh]

Quote:
many of the particular breeds have clubs with breeders listed.

 

[BayouPoules]

Quote:
Very nicely put. We have learned sooo much from the good breeders on BYC ,. (aveca has helped my DD much) and we have learned from those that know a lot about chickens but keep mutts and hatchery birds.
Thanks to everyone that takes the time to explain and educate.

 

[syble]

Some important questions to ask a breeder to see what they work towards:

Do you show?
-if so, how do they do?
-if not ask why? some good breeders do not show because of fear of contracting disease or there isnt a local show.

What are your goals for your flock
-ideally the answer is to improve something. Be it a general improvement to bring them closer to the SOP, or a specific trait, or hardiness, whatever. I twitch when i hear, oh i just let them run i like to see chicks round all the time!

Ask how long they have worked with the breed
- although some people will start selling as soon as they get them, beware of people who keep a breed for a year, breed like mad and sell out shortly after starting. How do you find this out? ask what other breeds they've worked with and what got them into this breed. Often times you can tell a lot about a breeder by what else they keep. Some breeders are 1 breed people, others like the one breed but in all the colors. Others have focused on one breed for a long time and although they still breed that they have decided to add another challenge. I like all those. There are breeders who will keep anything that crosses their fancy. so they(not all but most) wont be able to keep focused on the breeds enough to improve them properly as they have 20 different projects going at a time. I tend to avoid that.

Ask where they got their start in the breed.
-Ideally you want to hear from a exhibition breeder, or the like. But there are many people that keep SOP based flocks without showing them.

When its all said and done, you have to do your homework on a breed and ask a breeder a battery of questions before you buy. If you get the brush off, or short answers consider that a flag. I have NEVER met a serious breeder of anything who, when given the chance, wouldn't talk your ear off! We've already established breeders don't really make money so its for love of the breed that they do it, so they're gonna want to make you just as passionate!

Pay attention to hatching eggs. They are the hardest way to get quality stock (though one of my favorite and most rewarding). There are people out there that will use average stock and take photos off google for adds and make their stock out better then it is. There are others, that have hatchery stock or average backyard stock that will also post adds, they think they are good quality so they will post that they are, but they may not know better. The truth is alot of actual breeders wont sell hatching eggs, or even chicks for that matter. Ask alot of questions! that is your best tool, and dont put all your eggs in one basket so to speak. If your going to acquire a breed through hatching eggs, realize first that you can loose half the eggs to shipping first of all. Also diversify. Try and get eggs from 2 or 3 different breeders. then as they grow watch them carefully and keep track of who came from where, then select the best to keep. I'm aiming to have 3-4 dozen for each breed/variety that i plan to add this spring. I will only keep 1-2 roos and 4-6 hens out of them. I will keep less if they don't measure up. Breeding from good stock is challenging enough, i don't feel the need to start with flaws!

I am a big fan of pictures! they are worth a 1000 words! A great example is partridge color pattern. The person selling them had great photos of the birds from afar. they looked good. but at the time i was good with type but needed to improve the pencil/lacing on my hens. He said oh yeah that's nice and clean. I bugged for photos before i would commit to buy. finally he gave in and they were supper mossy! though i might not have known that was bad if i wasn't well versed in that color.
sib

 

[EweSheep]

Chickielady and Syble, you wrote great ideas that I have to post it in the Welsummer thread....food for thought!

 

[Chickielady]

Quote:

This will be a great help to those new, and who have decided to persue the chicken rasing a bit further.

 

[Chickielady]

It has been said here before, and cannot stress it enough, that when you fall in love with a breed, and want to dedicate the time to it, then search out breeders of that bird.
Look at their photos, look at their time spent, and study the "type" of the breeder's birds. Get a copy of the SOP !! Ask yourself if they look SOP quality or not.
If you are hatching eggs you need to try and choose a breeder close by so to as not get eggs addled from a long nasty postal trip, for example.
*****
And also wanted to add, I have had the misfortune of meeting quite a few arrogant idiots in my long lifetime.
Alot are complete loosers, alot have been wife beaters and most were drunks and just thought they were the cats meow and better than thou.
I have never ran into such persons here on BYC.
So, in a nutshell, get some chicks from the feed store and learn. It is a long road to learning all about poultry, diseases and care.
I am still learning, we all are. I figure when I am 80 I will be so smart!!!
I will be an eggs-pert

But have fun, and always learn.
Always ask questions.
And if you should decide you love a certain breed, and or alot of breeds like some of us, and are willing to dedicate endless hours, and get up 2 or 3 times in the night to check the pens or incubators..and spend more cash on better quality eggs and stock, and show..then go for it.
But if not, then stay with the hatchery stock.
Some folks just want breakfast.
I sure want to see the Blue Copper Cuckoos !!!

Promise to post pics !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[draye]

Quote:
Now this is something that I can agree to. Put in a way that isn't so know it all. Not pointing fingers here at anyone..

 

[EweSheep]

I've ran into a few duds in BYC but they are no longer in here and either they are out of business or still in cyberspace somewhere!

It really didn't get them very far with that kind of arrogance.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Have tried to read this thread, but got lost. So will go ahead and post my thoughts on hatchery v breeder.

The ALBC definition of heritage is a breed bred to the Standard of Perfection. This does not mean show quality. It means bred to the Standard that the breed's developer designed for that breed. That means a Buff Orpington standard weights at maturity are males-10 lbs. and hens-8 lbs. They are also a dual purpose breed that should lay 200-250+ eggs per year. I will admit, the breed needs work. One old Master Breeder, J. Ralph Brazelton, would not hatch from a hen that did not produce more than 250-300 eggs per year. Yet his Orpingtons were Standard sizes of males 10+ lbs and hens 8+ lbs. There are few breeders today and NO hatcheries with the true dual purpose quality of Ralph's birds.

An 8lb Buff Orpington male is not a real Orpington. Just like a Show Quality Orpington that produces 25 eggs a year is not a real Orpington. The breeders need to bring the breeds back to what the Standard of Perfection (SOP) suggest it should be. The hatcheries need to improve their birds to meet the SOP in appearance and size/type. I know of many breeders who sold hatching eggs/birds to Ideal Poultry Farms. Granted some of Ideal's birds are not what they should be, but they are trying on many of their breeds.

Another breed that is greatly different between a hatchery and breeder is the Rhode Island Red. A true to Standard RIR is so dark red it is almost black. It is also a very gentle and friendly breed. Yet most hatcheries offer a light to medium red bird that has males that are as mean as snot! Why are they mean? Because somewhere the hatcheries crossed a Brown Leghorn to the RIR to increase production. Thus most hatcheries DO NOT sell a RIR, but a Production Red.

If you just want some pretty chickens that will produce eggs in your backyard, buy from any hatchery.

If you wish to preserve a rare Heritage breed, then buy from a breeder with a good reputation in that breed.

A good example of how to restore a breed to what the SOP intends it to be is the Buckeye. The ALBC restored the Buckeye to what it was intended. Here is the ALBC's Chicken Assessment for Improving Productivity that they used for the Buckeye. http://www.albc-usa.org/EducationalResources/chickens.html They also have a breeders listings of Heritage Poultry Breeders.