What Breeds Can Breed? / How to Incubate Eggs Naturally with a Broody Momma Hen?

[Mmfarm119]

Hello All -
I have an RIR rooster and we are planning on breeding with him at the end of the month. I have ISA Browns, barred rocks, buff ops, and 1 Americana hen. I hatched some fertile eggs we got back in February and I got a which I am told is an ISA brown or red sex link which I am pretty sure is a rooster and 2 of the Blackstars which I believe 1 is a hen and the other is a rooster but I am not very experienced with the Blackstar breed as they are my first 2 and only 4 months old. Back in February when I got the eggs I was told that the Blackstar is the cross between the RIR and the Barred Rock but was also informed when you breed black stars, you don't get black stars. I know this is a lot but I need help understanding what to cross when breeding. Our chickens are primarily used for eggs. I was told that if you breed hybrids, something about the quality of egg production or meat production decreases but I would like more information on this. What breeds can I breed with my RIR rooster? How can I continue the chain?

Side Note - If anyone has any tips for broody chickens or hatching eggs under a broody hen, please let me know. One of my buff ops I believe is broody and I would love to try to incubate eggs naturally but not really sure how that works as I have never done it before. I am also curious as to why my other older hens have yet to go broody.

Any and all tips and information is appreciated! Thank you in advance!

 

[nuthatched]

Hmm, not being able to cross hybrids with hybrids is undiluted hogwash, because they're not true hybrids ( two different species), they're just cross breeds.
Black stars, isa browns are sex link breeds, you know the they're mixes designed to be able to be sexed by sight by color, the girl chicks will have the fathers color and the boy chicks the mothers, so if you breed two together, those traits disappear.
as for letting a broody hatch the eggs, you separate her into area she can have privacy and let her do her thing.

 

[Mmfarm119]

Hmm, not being able to cross hybrids with hybrids is undiluted hogwash, because they're not true hybrids ( two different species), they're just cross breeds.
Black stars, isa browns are sex link breeds, you know the they're mixes designed to be able to be sexed by sight by color, the girl chicks will have the fathers color and the boy chicks the mothers, so if you breed two together, those traits disappear.
as for letting a broody hatch the eggs, you separate her into area she can have privacy and let her do her thing.

So what your saying is I can breed any of my hens with my RIR Rooster? What will this look like after I do that first cross? Can the crosses then be bred, if so with what? (Sorry I am not too experienced with chicken genetics )

I wasn't aware the ISAs and the black stars were sex-linked (gonna go check chick pics now)

 

[nuthatched]

So what your saying is I can breed any of my hens with my RIR Rooster? What will this look like after I do that first cross? Can the crosses then be bred, if so with what? (Sorry I am not too experienced with chicken genetics )

I wasn't aware the ISAs and the black stars were sex-linked (gonna go check chick pics now)

No problem.
There's a whole lot of myths surrounding chicken breeds, with your chickens they'd be barnyard mixes (mutts) so not telling what they'd look like.
Just think of it like this:
If you bred a dalmatian with a golden retriever could the resulting offspring breed? Yes, of course.
If you crossed the dalmation/retriever dogs with another mixed bred or purebred dog, could those offspring breed? Yes!
Chickens are all one species, with different breeds and those breeds can mix just fine, in fact that's where most of our current breeds come from. People using various chicken breeds to get the traits they want.

 

[Ridgerunner]

but was also informed when you breed black stars, you don't get black stars.

The first post in this thread is a good explanation of what a sex link is. I had to read it several times and study it to finally get a handle on it but it's the best I can offer.

Tadkerson’s Sex Link Thread

http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=261208

A sex link chick is one where if the father is set up correctly genetically and the mother is set up properly genetically you can tell the sex of the chick at hatch. There is nothing magical about a sex link's production or anything else, just that you can tell the sex at hatch. If you look at the charts in that first post in that thread you can see that there are many different parents you can use to make a sex link. Black Stars are not limited to a RIR Rooster over a Barred Rock hen. That combo works but so do many others.

Once you hatch a chick after crossing a hen and rooster that are set up properly genetically the genetics are mixed up. They are no longer set up properly to make another generation of sex links. So if you breed Black Stars you don't get a Black Star because you cannot sex the chicks at hatch. There is nothing wrong with the chickens from that cross, they may be extremely productive. But you can't sex the chicks.

If you see a chicken advertised as a Star or Comet they are typically sex links. Those are just marketing names, they are not a breed. Some hatcheries use other marketing names, Cinnamon Queen is one for a certain red sex link. There are plenty of other marketing names. An ISA Brown is a certain red sex link that is specially bed for the commercial egg business. There the name does mean something. An ISA Brown should lay a lot of decent sized eggs.

I was told that if you breed hybrids, something about the quality of egg production or meat production decreases but I would like more information on this.

When you breed chickens the chick inherits traits from both the hen and the rooster. If you breed a pure bred hen to a purebred rooster you can pretty well tell what you will get because the hen and rooster's genetics are fairly well set. But when you breed hybrids the genetics are not set, they can be pretty jumbled up. That's true with colors and patterns and with other traits. You might get a hen that lays better than her mother. You might get one that lays worse. Odds are if the hen and the rooster are from flocks that lay pretty well the majority of your pullets will lay pretty well too. That's what they mean when you read that hybrids don't breed true. They don't, some will be better than others, some will be worse. But that doesn't mean that worse is all that bad. Worse can still be pretty good.

What breeds can I breed with my RIR rooster? How can I continue the chain?

Any chicken can breed with any other chicken. What I suggest is to pick the hens and rooster(s) you want the chicks to be like and breed them. Selective breeding, breed your best to your best.

If anyone has any tips for broody chickens or hatching eggs under a broody hen, please let me know. One of my buff ops I believe is broody and I would love to try to incubate eggs naturally but not really sure how that works as I have never done it before.

This is a huge topic and there are a lot of different ways you could go about it. My test to determine if a hen is truly broody and deserves hatching eggs is that she has to spend two consecutive nights on the nest instead of in her normal sleeping spot. I've had several hens act broody but not really be broody enough for eggs.

The eggs need to start under her at the same time. Collect al the eggs you want to give her and start them together. Very important, you do not want them to hatch at different times. A staggered hatch is very stressful for you and the hen.

Some people isolate their broody hens while incubating, I don't. I mark the eggs with a Sharpie and put them under the hen. Mark your calendar. The actual hatch date can vary a bit but eggs should hatch about three weeks later. The day of the week you set them is the target date for hatch. If you start them on a Friday, then a Friday is the target date.

Once she gets the eggs I check under her every day after the others have laid and remove any that don't belong. As long as you remove them every day they are good to eat. Do not let unmarked eggs build up under her, bad things could happen.

When the chicks hatch I put food and water on the coop floor where the chicks can get to them. I leave it up to the broody hen to decide when to bring the chicks off the nest and leave everything else up to her. She knows more about being a broody hen by instinct than I'll ever know.

As I said, some people isolate a hen while broody. This is already long enough, I'll let somebody else tell how they do it.

I am also curious as to why my other older hens have yet to go broody.

Many hens have had the broodiness bred out of them. They are not laying eggs when they are broody and they use incubators to hatch eggs. To them a broody hen is a liability. Many hens will never go broody in their life. Some go broody a lot.

 

[Mmfarm119]

The first post in this thread is a good explanation of what a sex link is. I had to read it several times and study it to finally get a handle on it but it's the best I can offer.

Tadkerson’s Sex Link Thread

http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=261208

A sex link chick is one where if the father is set up correctly genetically and the mother is set up properly genetically you can tell the sex of the chick at hatch. There is nothing magical about a sex link's production or anything else, just that you can tell the sex at hatch. If you look at the charts in that first post in that thread you can see that there are many different parents you can use to make a sex link. Black Stars are not limited to a RIR Rooster over a Barred Rock hen. That combo works but so do many others.

Once you hatch a chick after crossing a hen and rooster that are set up properly genetically the genetics are mixed up. They are no longer set up properly to make another generation of sex links. So if you breed Black Stars you don't get a Black Star because you cannot sex the chicks at hatch. There is nothing wrong with the chickens from that cross, they may be extremely productive. But you can't sex the chicks.

If you see a chicken advertised as a Star or Comet they are typically sex links. Those are just marketing names, they are not a breed. Some hatcheries use other marketing names, Cinnamon Queen is one for a certain red sex link. There are plenty of other marketing names. An ISA Brown is a certain red sex link that is specially bed for the commercial egg business. There the name does mean something. An ISA Brown should lay a lot of decent sized eggs.


When you breed chickens the chick inherits traits from both the hen and the rooster. If you breed a pure bred hen to a purebred rooster you can pretty well tell what you will get because the hen and rooster's genetics are fairly well set. But when you breed hybrids the genetics are not set, they can be pretty jumbled up. That's true with colors and patterns and with other traits. You might get a hen that lays better than her mother. You might get one that lays worse. Odds are if the hen and the rooster are from flocks that lay pretty well the majority of your pullets will lay pretty well too. That's what they mean when you read that hybrids don't breed true. They don't, some will be better than others, some will be worse. But that doesn't mean that worse is all that bad. Worse can still be pretty good.


Any chicken can breed with any other chicken. What I suggest is to pick the hens and rooster(s) you want the chicks to be like and breed them. Selective breeding, breed your best to your best.


This is a huge topic and there are a lot of different ways you could go about it. My test to determine if a hen is truly broody and deserves hatching eggs is that she has to spend two consecutive nights on the nest instead of in her normal sleeping spot. I've had several hens act broody but not really be broody enough for eggs.

The eggs need to start under her at the same time. Collect al the eggs you want to give her and start them together. Very important, you do not want them to hatch at different times. A staggered hatch is very stressful for you and the hen.

Some people isolate their broody hens while incubating, I don't. I mark the eggs with a Sharpie and put them under the hen. Mark your calendar. The actual hatch date can vary a bit but eggs should hatch about three weeks later. The day of the week you set them is the target date for hatch. If you start them on a Friday, then a Friday is the target date.

Once she gets the eggs I check under her every day after the others have laid and remove any that don't belong. As long as you remove them every day they are good to eat. Do not let unmarked eggs build up under her, bad things could happen.

When the chicks hatch I put food and water on the coop floor where the chicks can get to them. I leave it up to the broody hen to decide when to bring the chicks off the nest and leave everything else up to her. She knows more about being a broody hen by instinct than I'll ever know.

As I said, some people isolate a hen while broody. This is already long enough, I'll let somebody else tell how they do it.


Many hens have had the broodiness bred out of them. They are not laying eggs when they are broody and they use incubators to hatch eggs. To them a broody hen is a liability. Many hens will never go broody in their life. Some go broody a lot.

Thank you so much for all your information! It truly helped a lot! So far one of my buff ops has been sitting in the coop for almost 2 days, I don't have any fertile eggs right now so I collect them all every day but I have fake ones in the nests to help my younger ones know where to go. Once I collect the infertile eggs from under her she moves to the nest with the most fake eggs or even moves fake eggs from other nests into one and then she sits on them. I was planning on starting to incubate eggs at the end of the month but I would love to have her incubate them naturally if possible. Would she still be broody then?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Would she still be broody then?

I would not wait that long. Before a pullet or hen starts to lay she builds up a lot of excess fat. This fat is mostly what she lives on when she is broody. That way she can stay on the nest and take care of the eggs instead of having to be off a few times a day looking for food. Some store more fat than others and some come off to eat and drink more than others. So like everything else to do with chickens there is no magic number that says when every broody hen in the world will run out of that excess fat. A broody hen will lose weight while broody but no big deal. It's fat put there for that purpose.

When they run out of that fat most hens will beak from being broody, but a few may stay broody long enough to actually hurt themselves. Also, when the hen breaks from being broody she has to replace that fat she's used before she starts laying again. So if I am not gong to give a broody hen eggs to hatch or baby chicks to raise I break them from being broody as early as possible.

My rule is that if a hen is not going to hatch eggs by the time she has been broody for five weeks I break her. That five weeks is purely arbitrary. I don't know when a hen is going to run out of that fat. I think for most hens it is well over five weeks. Over six or seven weeks would not surprise me for most hens. I consider five weeks to be extremely safe. Yours would probably be OK if you give her eggs by the end of this month but it's also possible she won't, probably by breaking from being broody at a real bad time.

 

[Mmfarm119]

I would not wait that long. Before a pullet or hen starts to lay she builds up a lot of excess fat. This fat is mostly what she lives on when she is broody. That way she can stay on the nest and take care of the eggs instead of having to be off a few times a day looking for food. Some store more fat than others and some come off to eat and drink more than others. So like everything else to do with chickens there is no magic number that says when every broody hen in the world will run out of that excess fat. A broody hen will lose weight while broody but no big deal. It's fat put there for that purpose.

When they run out of that fat most hens will beak from being broody, but a few may stay broody long enough to actually hurt themselves. Also, when the hen breaks from being broody she has to replace that fat she's used before she starts laying again. So if I am not gong to give a broody hen eggs to hatch or baby chicks to raise I break them from being broody as early as possible.

My rule is that if a hen is not going to hatch eggs by the time she has been broody for five weeks I break her. That five weeks is purely arbitrary. I don't know when a hen is going to run out of that fat. I think for most hens it is well over five weeks. Over six or seven weeks would not surprise me for most hens. I consider five weeks to be extremely safe. Yours would probably be OK if you give her eggs by the end of this month but it's also possible she won't, probably by breaking from being broody at a real bad time.

Thank you for your help! I really appreciate it. She has been constantly on the nest for 3 days and I took her out today, she pooped and is now eating. I am not sure if she will go back to the nest or not but she does look huge compared to her sister chicken, same age and breed and now I know why I will keep a close monitor on her this month. Thanks again for your help!

 

[Mmfarm119]

I would not wait that long.

We have decided to start the process earlier. Definitely want to do and try something new since this broody time is limited and it's been the first time with any of my chickens in over a year. All of your tips and information will be put to good use!

 

[Mmfarm119]

Hello All -
I started my afternoon with a group of newborn baby chicks. I am curious about the cross. My RIR rooster is the father of all of them and the mothers are either Barred Rocks, ISAs, or Buff Ops. I currently have 2 tanish, yellow-colored chicks and a black one which I am positive is a black star. No white on its head so I think it's a female? Would my Buff Op/RIR cross be sex-linked? If so what do I look for? I know the ISA/RIR cross won't be sex-linked but what would these chicks look like?

Thank you for all the help!