What exactly does breed for resistance mean?

[kathyinmo]

What exactly does breed for resistance mean? Does it mean to allow your flock to be exposed to illness? Or does it mean to not use any vaccinations, and allow them to be carriers? What diseases are there that should be bred for resistance? All diseases, or just some?

Sorry, I just don't get it. I don't want a sick flock, but I don't want to have to give meds and vaccinations all the time either. Please explain all this to me.

Thanks.

 

[geeber]

Such good questions. I'm waiting w/ you for answers.

 

[NYREDS]

I'll tell you what it means to me.
I do not vaccinate for anything that way yes, the birds I raise are exposed to various pathogens. I also do not medicate for anything other than cocci but that's for a separate discussion. If a bird shows signs of disease it is culled immediately, no matter how good a prospect it appeared to be.
I have followed this program for a number of years and as a result I rarely have a sick bird because I am breeding only from birds with natural disease resistance.
I learned of this program of breeding for resistance from the writing of Fred Jeffrey who, among other things, wrote a book on chicken diseases. In the beginning of the book Dr Jeffrey stated that his chicken medicine cabinet consisted only of louse powder, a coccidiostat & a hatchet. That's all I have in mine.

 

[big medicine]

The theory as I understand it is, by vaccinating for say marek's you could be promoting, or allowing a line of birds that might potentially be hyper sensitive to survive. By not vaccinating the suseptable birds will drop out of the gene pool, allowing the resistant birds to dominate the blood line. Over time the line should become less suseptable to outbreaks. Survival of the fittest in action so to speak.

 

[gogoalie]

Breeding for resistence is exactly that. Exposing them to disease, via no vaccinations, & then gettin' sick, & allowing them to recover or die, & then breed that specific bird to produce offspring with a greater chance to defeat what ever infected the bird. Overtime, bred enough, you'll get a very disease resistant bird strain.

 

[kathyinmo]

Well then, how does this work with the birds being, "carriers?" If they are exposed, and live, they are called carriers of some diseases, correct? Which diseases, all of them? What about Mareks, MS, MG, etc (heck, I don't even know the names of all the poultry diseases!) I thought those diseases killed all the birds, or makes them carriers. How does that work .... would that mean you will always have (example MS) Mycoplasma Synoviae in your flock?

And what about the diseases that are passed through the egg .... I think MG is one of them .... what do ya do about that?

 

[lildinkem]

Quote:
I love to hear that others here on BYC that follow the old school type rememedies. I like to think using different lines within a breed strengthens my birds from the everyday horrible diseases that plague the line breeders.
My worst experience was from hatchery stock that had been obviously been inbred too long. And I agree, the weak will die and the strong lives on. That is how mother natures works.
I had another BYC member a year or so forward me these remedies that are also Old School cures. Lots of neat info.
I know in the past when I posted these, some appreciated it. hope some out there get the same enjoyment from these ideas.
Thought I'd share.

Cod liver oil (for vitamin D deficiency)
- Oyster shell grit (for digestion)
- Dried crushed pumpkin seeds (Worms)
- Garlic (Worms, chest infection)
- Apple Cider vinegar (Worm and tonic, better calcium and Vit.D absorption)
- Cat food (protein)
- Tuna (protein)
- Egg yolk (protein)
- Honey (energy)
- Yoghurt (digestive tract)
- Grated apple (mineral and vitamin; coccidiosis)
- Baby rice/oats (Bulking in food mix)
- Back rescue remedy (Trauma)
- Orange, Rosemary, clove oils (fleas)
- Wormwood, tansy (immune booster)
- Olive oil (Sour crop, crop binding)
- Probiotics (harmful microbes)
- Baking soda (Crop flush - mix 1/2 cup in a pint of water and syringe it 3 x)
- Nettle (tonic)
- Vaseline (Scaly legs, frostbite, cut)
- Cayenne pepper (worm, coccidiosis)
- Colloidal silver (Anti fungal/viral/microbial)
- Sulphur dust (lice)
- Whey powder (Coccidiosis)
- Chickweed (Immune booster)
- Oregano oil (Immune booster)
- Peppermint, catnip, marigold oil (mite repellent)
- Diatamacious Earth or DE (Calcium, wormer, mite, prevent fly from hatching)
- Vitamin E oil (Molting stress, fertility problems)
- Hypericum (pain relief, nerve damage, stress and Marek)
- Cornstarch (cut)
- Pine tar (cannibalism)
- Black sunflower seeds (Worm)

Or per ailments, this gives us:
TONIC
*Vit. D deficiency: Cod liver oil, ACV
*Tonic: ACV, grated apple, nettle
* Calcium defi ciency: AVC, Oyster shel l, DE, Crushed eggshell
* Protein deficiency: Cat food, tuna, egg yolk
* Energy boost: honey
*Immune boost: Wormwood, Tansy, probiotics, colloidal silver, chickweed, oregano oil
DIGESTIVE TRACT
*Digestion problem: Oyster grit, yoghurt
*Bulk for medicine: Baby rice, baby oat
*Sour crop: Olive oil
*Crop binding: Olive oil
*Crop flush: Baking soda
PARASITES
*Worm: Pumpkin Seeds, garlic, ACV, cayenne pepper, DE, Black sunflower seeds
*Fleas: Orange/Rosemary/Clove oils
*Lice: Sulphur powder
*Mites: Peppermint, catnip, marigold oil, DE as repellent
*Fly: DE
ILLNESS
*Chest infection: garlic water
*Coccidiosis: Grated apple, cayenne pepper, whey powder
* Marek: Hypericum (I think it is the same as St John's wort)
OTHER
*Trauma: Bach Flower Rescue Remedy
*Cut: Vaseline, cornstarch, pine tar
*Frostbite: Vaseline
*Scaly leg: Vaseline
*Molting stress: All protein stuff, Vit. E
*Fertility: Vitamin E
*Pain relief: Hypericum
*Nerve damage: Hypericum
*Stress: Hypericum

 

[TomNY]

Oyster shell is a soluble source of calcium. When used as grit non-laying birds can absorb enough calcium to case kidney problems. Non-soluble grit should be available and oyster shell offered free choice to layers. Tom


Quote:
I love to hear that others here on BYC that follow the old school type rememedies. I like to think using different lines within a breed strengthens my birds from the everyday horrible diseases that plague the line breeders.
My worst experience was from hatchery stock that had been obviously been inbred too long. And I agree, the weak will die and the strong lives on. That is how mother natures works.
I had another BYC member a year or so forward me these remedies that are also Old School cures. Lots of neat info.
I know in the past when I posted these, some appreciated it. hope some out there get the same enjoyment from these ideas.
Thought I'd share.

Cod liver oil (for vitamin D deficiency)
- Oyster shell grit (for digestion)
- Dried crushed pumpkin seeds (Worms)
- Garlic (Worms, chest infection)
- Apple Cider vinegar (Worm and tonic, better calcium and Vit.D absorption)
- Cat food (protein)
- Tuna (protein)
- Egg yolk (protein)
- Honey (energy)
- Yoghurt (digestive tract)
- Grated apple (mineral and vitamin; coccidiosis)
- Baby rice/oats (Bulking in food mix)
- Back rescue remedy (Trauma)
- Orange, Rosemary, clove oils (fleas)
- Wormwood, tansy (immune booster)
- Olive oil (Sour crop, crop binding)
- Probiotics (harmful microbes)
- Baking soda (Crop flush - mix 1/2 cup in a pint of water and syringe it 3 x)
- Nettle (tonic)
- Vaseline (Scaly legs, frostbite, cut)
- Cayenne pepper (worm, coccidiosis)
- Colloidal silver (Anti fungal/viral/microbial)
- Sulphur dust (lice)
- Whey powder (Coccidiosis)
- Chickweed (Immune booster)
- Oregano oil (Immune booster)
- Peppermint, catnip, marigold oil (mite repellent)
- Diatamacious Earth or DE (Calcium, wormer, mite, prevent fly from hatching)
- Vitamin E oil (Molting stress, fertility problems)
- Hypericum (pain relief, nerve damage, stress and Marek)
- Cornstarch (cut)
- Pine tar (cannibalism)
- Black sunflower seeds (Worm)

Or per ailments, this gives us:
TONIC
*Vit. D deficiency: Cod liver oil, ACV
*Tonic: ACV, grated apple, nettle
* Calcium defi ciency: AVC, Oyster shel l, DE, Crushed eggshell
* Protein deficiency: Cat food, tuna, egg yolk
* Energy boost: honey
*Immune boost: Wormwood, Tansy, probiotics, colloidal silver, chickweed, oregano oil
DIGESTIVE TRACT
*Digestion problem: Oyster grit, yoghurt
*Bulk for medicine: Baby rice, baby oat
*Sour crop: Olive oil
*Crop binding: Olive oil
*Crop flush: Baking soda
PARASITES
*Worm: Pumpkin Seeds, garlic, ACV, cayenne pepper, DE, Black sunflower seeds
*Fleas: Orange/Rosemary/Clove oils
*Lice: Sulphur powder
*Mites: Peppermint, catnip, marigold oil, DE as repellent
*Fly: DE
ILLNESS
*Chest infection: garlic water
*Coccidiosis: Grated apple, cayenne pepper, whey powder
* Marek: Hypericum (I think it is the same as St John's wort)
OTHER
*Trauma: Bach Flower Rescue Remedy
*Cut: Vaseline, cornstarch, pine tar
*Frostbite: Vaseline
*Scaly leg: Vaseline
*Molting stress: All protein stuff, Vit. E
*Fertility: Vitamin E
*Pain relief: Hypericum
*Nerve damage: Hypericum
*Stress: Hypericum

 

[ruth]

For me it also means no vaccinations, no worming, no antibiotics, unless warranted (an animal is sick and can be treated) - in other words, I try to run as natural and organic a farm as possible. I have goats, chickens, ducks, peacocks, guineas, geese, cats and dogs all running around the farm together - totally freerange - no fences. The ducks and chickens eat the goat poop - and everything eats the chicken poop. From most things I've read that would be a number one "no no". But I don't vaccinate any of the animals and I don't use wormers (other than when I see tape worm segments in dog poop, for example) and when an animal is sick I don't have the heart to cull it but I will isolate it and give whatever treatments I think might save it - including antibiotics. Luckily, I'm not seeing the same illnesses and issues I saw that first year here on the farm where I was constantly adding new chickens. It seems every creature here is now just naturally more resistant to everything. Of course, I have no idea if this method would work on some of the truly fatal diseases I've read about but I do know that for the past year or more everything has been healthy.

I've heard from goat breeders that they have to worm their goats every three months and they are still dying of worms and from peacock breeders who worm at least twice a year alternating wormers - and yet I don't worm either one and have not had a problem. I pray I don't live to regret my decisions but so far it seems to be working for me and my animals. Baby chicks and other hatchlings are turned loose at a week or two old and learn to run the farm with everyone else. I will occasionally find a dead chick in the coop or yard that did not seem sick prior and doesn't show any sign of injury and I never really know what happened to it but those that survive grow big and strong.

For the record, we have probably 300 chickens, 40 ducks, 20+ goats, 6 peafowl, 6 dogs - so the headcount is way up there and everyone is exposed to everything and it's rare that any of them get "sick" - injured yes, but sick, no. I do think my "system" only works because the animals are not penned up in their own waste and droppings and all animals can get to fresh pasture and browse and forage for real food. I don't think it would work for animals that must be kept penned up. I even let my breeder birds out of pens and rotate who goes in breeder pens and for how long.

So, for me, natural is better and builds resistance.

 

[speckledhen]

Remember that a bird can be exposed to a disease, not contract it, not be a carrier, just "resist" it due to its super healthy immune system. I'm with NYReds on this one. Wish more people would forget their medicine chest full of antibiotics for their flock.

Even if a bird appears to recover from a respiratory illness, I consider that bird a weak link in the flock. Breeding for resistance does not mean you let them become sick, then recover. That would just be setting up yourself for a very weak, immuno-compromised flock. Resistance means they DO NOT get sick because of their strong immune systems.