what has happened? no shell, just raw egg, no yolk. (PIC)

[threehorses]

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It means it's a darn good thing that shell got out of there! You didn't hurt her - you saved her. That shell and the yolk being up there will infect her.

Whenever there is a shell less egg or broken egg that comes out (or that you bring out), if it's at all incomplete, always gently flush the bird's cloaca with cool water or cool water with a gentle antiseptic. I prefer just cool water. The cool helps reduce the inflammation. You want all of the gunk out of there.

If your bird is still lethargic and didn't 'pop right out of it', I'd give penicillin - yes. Via injection. If not, I'd just get on the calcium. Since you say she sounds fine, I'd do the latter. And do the vitamin D treatment this week in case it's not just calcium. Of course, the diet should be 95% a good laying crumble or pellet. (I like 20%.) And free choice oyster shell.

I'm very glad she passed that stuff! What's her vent look like now? Is it small, dry, and flakey - or dilated, open, relaxed?

 

[threehorses]

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If you have them on a laying crumble, then they've built the balance in for you. So you're good on that. I prefer the higher proteins (20) to the lower (16) but that's personal preference and depends on what other proteins they get, too.



The wheat germ oil should be oil and fortified. That way you get the good D vitamin in it. On your yogurt, it won't have the same effect as store bought as store-bought is D fortified. Welllllll it won't have the same D vitamin effect. It'll have a wonderful effect for the good living bacteria in there, and a little extra protein, and of course some calcium. But what I was shooting at here was the vitamin D - so try either the wheat germ oil, or cod liver oil. With cod liver oil I personally only use it twice a week. Again very small amounts. It has A and D in it.

As for the yogurt, I aim at about 1 tablespoon per adult hen. It's not exactly but that's a good middle-ground.

I would also consider a one-time serving of a crushed Tum's tablet.

 

[threehorses]

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The way calcium works is this...

Feed manufacturers, based on research, found a good average of calcium needed for an average egg production hen. They thus provide a calcium to phosphorus balance of at least 6:1.

But some hens need as much as 15:1 cal to phos. You can't force the average hen without laying issues to take that much calcium on long term without problems. So we make up for those hens by giving them oyster shell. Oyster shell easily dissolves in the gizzard and is very bioavailable, the standard for providing a free-choice manner of calcium supplementation for years. Hens have a brilliant instinct for knowing when they need more calcium. So they will usually pick this stuff out.

Sometimes when they don't, we use the flour (powdery stuff) from the oyster shell crushed mix to add to feed. For that reason, I always buy crushed oyster shell over 'pelleted' (which looks more like grit). So I can get that flour.

If you have an emergency need for calcium, that's where the one-time treatment with tums comes in. Then you try to adjust their diet.

And of course, calcium is a three-legged stool. You could provide a dump truck's worth of calcium, but if the other two legs (vitamin D and phosphorus) aren't in the correct amounts, the stool will fall.

Phosphorus is rarely deficient as its source is grains and chickens are primarily cereal eaters. And of course, when you add more grains (more than 10% of their diet) you throw off the balance of the phos. If the bird doesn't take up vitamin D and calcium to meet that, she'll literally start taking calcium out of her bones. The bird's body thinks "Survival before egg laying" and stops making egg shells first. If the bird doesn't die from the eggs not passing (as shell less or soft shell eggs have a very hard time passing out to the outside of the bird), then they start to deplete their own bones until the beak becomes rubbery, etc.

Vitamin D can sometimes be deficient, but less often than phos being too high. But there are some things that can cause deficiency like a lack of a correct food; degradation of this oil vitamin in a dry food stored improperly, made improperly at the factory, or kept too long; fungal infections; etc.

So it's important to keep a good laying pellet/crumble in front of them, oyster shell free choice, the food really fresh, and some back up help for calcium absotbion like vitamin D supplements, tums, around.

 

[ging3rhoffman]

Thank you very much for taking the time to help us. I will only give a tiny bit of the wheat seed now. I will lay off for awhile all together. I will also be getting the crushed oyster shell instead of the large chunks.

I think i will back off the other treats as well and make sure they fill up on their Layena.

Thanks again

 

[dhelin]

Thanks for the feedback....yes, "Rose" had a good day--out having fun in the yard with her pals, picking at bugs and ranging normally--when I picked her up to look at her backside, the vent looked clean (finally), pink, moist and open! Apparently that's all good!

She had another dose of calcium last night (1/2 tab of tums), so I think she's up on that....interesting, when I put her back in the coop this a.m., she immediately went to the nest boxes and sat there for 10 minutes--no results....and nothing all day...

Watching her closely...will try wheat germ oil or part of one of my one VitD capsules this weekend, too....this is all so interesting! I'm an MD, and an OBgYN to boot, so I'm fascinated with the reproductive health of my gals!!

Thanks , threehorses...you are a chicken goddess....

 

[threehorses]

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If you use the wheat germ oil, you shouldn't have to use the D. Or just use the D instead.

It's something you don't want to over do, but they do need a bit. Sometimes the D just gets a little bit behind.

For the next few days, I'd pick her up and gently feel her abdomen. Very delicately.

 

[dhelin]

OK, got it!
Whew. These chickies remind me of when my DD was a baby---such a foreign experience, but oh, so addicting!

 

[sbkilloran]

We are having a very similar problem. Our girls just started laying about 2 weeks ago. Then this week 1 of them is laying Really small eggs, and at first didn't think too much but she is doing it every time she lays(4 times now). They are Very small and no yoke. If it was just once or twice wouldn't be to concerned but don't want this to go on too long.

 

[threehorses]

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I agree that I would rather see some yolk, though small eggs are not very abnormal. We have a hen this year that lays nearly bantam sized eggs and has for a year. (Oddly she also has a very small comb - our big-combed same-breed hen lays big eggs.)

sbkilloran, are you having soft shells as well? Are all your gals on at least 16% feed (18 is better, I feed 20% gamebird layer/breeder)? All on oyster shell? Not too many grains, less than 10% of their diet?