What is a Hybrid really?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by javachick, Jan 24, 2011.

  1. javachick

    javachick Out Of The Brooder

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    A question I have been wondering about: Hybrids... if you introduce one breed into another breed is the line forever more a hybrid breed?

    The reason I am pondering this question is Bantam Black and Mottled Javas. Where are they? How would you go about re-establishing them? If you use another breed is it still a true Java or a hybrid Java? Does it matter?

    javachick
     
  2. Illia

    Illia Crazy for Colors

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    Hybrids are usually an F1 crossing of two breeds, such as Rocks and Production Reds. But on a more general note, they're an unrecognized "mutt."

    One is not a hybrid if it is recognized and well bred to a desired trait. Such example are Lavender Ameraucanas. . . . Yes, way back there they were outcrossed to get the Lavender color, but otherwise they've mostly been bred to the point now that you can clearly see and say it is an Ameraucana.
     
  3. Chris09

    Chris09 Circle (M) Ranch

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    Hybrid (biology), an offspring resulting from cross-breeding.
    1 Hybrids between different subspecies within a species (such as between the Bengal tiger and Siberian tiger) are known as intra-specific hybrids.
    2 The second type of hybrid consists of crosses between populations, breeds or cultivars within a single species. This meaning is often used in plant and animal breeding,
    where hybrids are commonly produced and selected because they have desirable characteristics not found or inconsistently present in the parent individuals or populations.
    This flow of genetic material between populations or races is often called hybridization.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid

    Hybrid Fowl for the table -
    • Light Sussex x White Wyandotte
    • White Wyandotte X Light Sussex
    • Indian Game X Rhode Island Red
    • Indian Game X Sussex on Light Sussex

    Hybrid Fowl for Egg Laying -
    • Sex-Links
    • Leghorn x Rhode Island Red
    • Light Sussex x Rhode Island Red
    • Rhode Island Red x New Hampshire

    Chris
     
  4. lildinkem

    lildinkem Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Some call em MUTTS, Here is a "Hybrid".
    Sometimes mixing two entirely different breeds can be like opening a box of chocolates you just do not really know what will pop out, (had to use the FOREST GUMP analogy when it fits).
    Many have mixed Buff Orp and Speckled Sussex together to go after Jubilee's. This was an accidental breeding. I shown this cockerel as a New Hampshire in the Central Indiana Show. Had one big time Faverolles breeder say "he looks like a New Hamp. And a darn good looking New Hamp too". Asides from the most prominant New Hamp breeder, there are few of them ever shown. Most of what is shown is hatchery stock. Which is sad. He did not win, but did not get DQ'd. I am just a RIR away from having the whole package to work into a New Hampshire. Without even trying for it.
    These 2 NEW HAMP looking birds will be breed together. I expect a whole bunch of neat looking birds from their offspring. And yes I expect there will be more New Hamp looking birds.
    Basically what I am trying to say is , you may get something else which is totally cool. And go with the flow. I have one other breeding I did last year which produced eqully as cool results. You just don't know till you try.
    Alot can be done with out cross birds like these. And to think I wanted to enter him as a Red Orpington. lololol
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Lollipop

    Lollipop Chillin' With My Peeps

    The problem with hybrids is they don`t reproduce like kind, which means you have to have the original parents to get the same results. When you crossbreed you get what is known as "hybrid vigor", which is a better bird than either parent. When you breed that crossbreed to another just like it, you lose the "hybrid vigor"...........Pop
     
  6. phasianidae

    phasianidae Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:minus the pale legs, he looks similar to a NH
     
  7. javachick

    javachick Out Of The Brooder

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    Okay... still a little confused.
    The first out cross F1 is a Hybrid (mutt) ... you pick up the trait you are looking for (color, size, etc.) but then breeding back to the true breed after that ... what generation are you back to the true breed or are you ever? Does it matter if you get the genes you are looking to acquire.

    What if you need to out cross a second generation to get the trait you want? Let's use size for instance. I am trying to downsize the Standard Black Java to a Bantam size. If I use a current bantam breed, say a Black Rock or Black Game bird... I guess when the birds start breeding uniformally true the line is back to the true breed or it never is?

    Or do I hope it is in my gene pool and use a true Java bloodline? I am looking to breed to the SOP for a Bantam Black or Mottled Java. Did they really exist?

    Thank you for you help.

    javachick
     
  8. lildinkem

    lildinkem Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:minus the pale legs, he looks similar to a NH

    I may get an RIR pullet or two and see what would come out of him. I agree, that these two will shoot the whole gammit of coloration of Reds, Oranges, Buffs and some with Specks.
    In another breeding I did 2 years ago. I was told by an ole timer to double check the fertility of the Buff Orp Hens I was getting from him. He said they never produced a fertile egg. So he encouraged me to use my most likely to get the job done cockerel. That happened to be a Black Australorp mix from Meyer Hatchery. Once I did prove these Buff hens were infact fertile, I contacted a local Exhibition Buff Orp breeder to get a cockerel to use on my hens. The very first eggs I did hatch, it turned out the Buff Orp cockerel missed fired. I hatched out some 1/2 Buff Orp/ 1/2 Black Aussie mix chicks. I did keep one who turned out to be an 11 lbs cock to use with the thought of "what if" I take him to a bottom level Black Orp hen, and Blue Splash hen. What would come out? Well I was surprised how many turned out jet Black and actually looked like something I can use. Some of them had a higher tail angle for some reason. Very much a English style looking bird. Some looked lousy as to be expected with any breeding program.
    So, in 2 generations I was able to get a bird like this pullet. No she is not a show winner. But maybe worthy of use with a lower tail angled male who displays other traits I like. Which I have and will use.
    [​IMG]
    she is camera shy normally
    [​IMG]
    Thought I'd show a Blue who I did Show in Connorsville. She won BV agaisnt 2 other Blues.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  9. blackdotte

    blackdotte Chillin' With My Peeps

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    The term hybrid relating to commercial fowl is a word used by the large commercial hatcheries .
    In fact there is only one genus of domestic fowl, so the commercial hybrids are in fact just crossbreds.
    The mating of two different genus together, ie A chicken X turkey will result in a hybrid
    David
     
  10. gallorojo

    gallorojo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    No, actually a cross between 2 distinct breeds of chickens is A HYBRID. Even a cross between 2 colors or strains can be considered a hybrid. What do you think HYBRID sweet corn, or tomatoes, are? A hybrid does NOT have to be 2 distinct species, it simply has to be a cross that exhibits heterosis, i.e., hybrid vigor. HETEROSIS- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_vigour

    Sorry, I understand what you are trying to say, but it is not technically correct..[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011

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