What is the best commercial layer feed with the least amount of corn?

[Melky]

I can relate to the differences in flavor between free-range meat and eggs versus those produced in confinement. Even with free-range, you have a spectrum of how the products taste with some hard to differentiate from confined. The free-range I grew up with had the birds getting most of their nutrition by consuming forages with only small amounts coming from any sort of feed. The areas foraged where more along the lines of pastures and hay fields with a little barnyard action that provided the processed grain component. Even though the birds then and now prefer insect fair over just about anything else, little pieces of vegetative greens dominate by volume what the birds actually consume. Most the time seeds and sometimes fruits come in second. The consistent exception to that pattern is chicks where insects and the like are most important. The impacts on flavor come mostly from the changes in the fat that be related to diet. The forages have a lot more unsaturated fatty acids and less energy coming from carbohydrates. When I pack my birds up on a grain based diet like when they are confined, the types and amounts of the fatty acids in the eggs and meat tends to reflect that of the diet provided. Things get real fun with the dietary carbohydrates which tend to be converted saturated fats for storage in tissues. Those saturated fats are what give the different taste and mouthfeel. The chickens, like most animals, cannot make much in the way of the unsaturated fatty acids that many consumers prefer with respect to taste and health interest. Some do cheat by using unsaturated fat source in the feed formulations. I use things like safflower and BOSS to get closer to the unsaturated fatty acids. With fish I use fish oil and canola oil.

A big part of the corn, at least as I use it, is that it can make the birds fat because the its inclusion can sometimes make so the diet has too much energy. I try to manage shelled corn inclusion rate as a function of the weather. The birds get a fixed rate of the nutritionally balance / complete formulation and I start adding things like shelled corn, millet, BOSS and soaked oats when it get cold. The colder it gets the more of the intact grains the birds get. The problem is the weather changes a lot during the winter and some birds need more or less energy depending upon sex, whether or not in lay, and state of feathering. Birds in the hard part of molt eat more when it is cold. Wind really aggravates things. I try to feed to meet the needs of the neediest which means some are being overfed.

As long as you are feeding the right amount of protein your birds should not be fat. I do not let my birds feed ad lib once grown to breed weight. They get a 1/4 lb feed per bird per day. They do not get fat. I don’t feed corn or scratch. I agree there is a taste difference. I don’t feed boss or the others you mentioned. I do feed dried mealworms or handful of greens as an occasional treat but not every day. They are more confined in the winter but this does not mean I feed more. I occasionally make homemade protein seed cakes for them with dried mealworms in them. Again I don’t dilute the nutrition in the bag. Treats less than 10% of diet. I grow my greens for them. I agree my chickens much prefer to forage but will still eat same amount of food per day. Does take them longer in the day to eat it but still eat same amount. I live on smaller amount of property but when able to forage they love the bugs and insects they can find in the garden or around the house. I just see it as a nice treat for them. I will be interested to see the difference in the egg yolk between winter versus spring/summer when foraging more.

 

[insain1]

I feed my "Gals" a diet of seeds as in pumpkin (in season), sunflower, millet, split peas, safflower, oyster shells, whole wheat, barley, oats and DE.
Yes it's a tad more to do it my way but I haven't had a outbreak since I started this new lifestyle.
I won't feed them any crumble as in, I can't see what it was before they turned it into garbage feed. Yuck!
I'm also allergic to soy, corn, fast foods and packaged foods (they almost all have corn or soy in them)

 

[centrarchid]

As long as you are feeding the right amount of protein your birds should not be fat. I do not let my birds feed ad lib once grown to breed weight. They get a 1/4 lb feed per bird per day. They do not get fat. I don’t feed corn or scratch. I agree there is a taste difference. I don’t feed boss or the others you mentioned. I do feed dried mealworms or handful of greens as an occasional treat but not every day. They are more confined in the winter but this does not mean I feed more. I occasionally make homemade protein seed cakes for them with dried mealworms in them. Again I don’t dilute the nutrition in the bag. Treats less than 10% of diet. I grow my greens for them. I agree my chickens much prefer to forage but will still eat same amount of food per day. Does take them longer in the day to eat it but still eat same amount. I live on smaller amount of property but when able to forage they love the bugs and insects they can find in the garden or around the house. I just see it as a nice treat for them. I will be interested to see the difference in the egg yolk between winter versus spring/summer when foraging more.

My birds are outside, like very outside and I keep track of feed intake. With the individually confined birds I can see the differences in feed intake very easily. The totally free-range birds also need more long the lines of energy when wind chill kicks in. The birds penned in barn / enclosed coops live a much more buffered existence and do not vary as much in terms of feed intake. My roosters are on maintenance rations, not for promoting growth or egg production. My broodstock game hens and American Dominique's are also on maintenance rations during most of the winter because hatching-egg collection is not practical owing to odds of freezing.

When it gets really cold coupled with contraction in feed intake, those in lay come out of lay for a few days before appetite resumes in a big way. Blizzard conditions can have the outside birds not eating for a day or two even though feed is present. Then they make up the difference.

 

[GreenMountainEric]

Thank you, I agree that freshness is indeed important. But they all have corn as first ingredient. I did add them to my top 3 list because they are organic and Non-GMO.

Hi @Ariannah. If I can be of any help, feel free to PM me. (or ask in this thread if you like)

 

[Ariannah]

We have always used corn for the table-egg (eating egg) chickens and got good eggs. For the other chickens we avoided use of corn except during winter. That is past tense. I am not certain logic used to avoid use of corn was sound even when it was before development of GMO's.

A lot of times, supplements and unnatural-looking ingredients are the same stuff that's in natural ingredients like plants, just concentrated or made in a lab instead of being in the plant. The list of chemical ingredients of an apple, for example, contains a lot of long and scary-sounding words.
Corn doesn't contain all the needed substances to keep chickens healthy, so, if a food contains a lot of corn, you have to also add those substances. Sometimes it's easier to add the pure substance instead of things that contain the substance. Doesn't mean the substance is bad for you.

Thanks for your scientific viewpoint. I wish that the subjective experience of the chicken keeper would be taken just as seriously as the observations that are made in a lab, regarding food.

For example, lemons have high concentrations of citric acid (which sounds indeed scary). I also know it is an important nutrient. I get all that. However the lab made stuff is synthetically produced and the effects can be much harsher on the body.

If I get an upset tummy after drinking fruit juice with added citric acid but not after drinking water with just lemon, should I dismiss my subjective experience for the sake of science and cost management?

Back to chicken feed. I noticed that molting lasts longer and the hens lay less tasty eggs when they eat commercial feed (with lab made stuff incl. citric acid) but when they forage, their molting lasts shorter and they lay better eggs. Should I ignore my observations for the sake of science and cost management?

I have worked for a large pharma co. Because of conflicting interests, the food industry and Pharmaceutical industry should probably never have partnered. I can come up with many reasons but that kind of a discussion was not my intention for starting this thread.

Although, it would please me if it would encourage other chicken keepers to pause in blindly accepting what food industries and food chemists are selling. If chicken owner would take their own responsibility and power back that they (including myself) voluntarily handed over out of need to save costs...

Therefore, I don’t want to attack the food industry and their science labs because they are just catering to the customers’ needs for affordable feed. I get that as well….

I just prefer natural chickenfeed without need of artificial supplements.

 

[centrarchid]

Backyard observations I make are hard to extrapolate from a lab. I do lab stuff all the time. Lab environment is tightly controlled and animals studied are all very similar genetically, often full-sibling when we can make that happen, of known age, and reared under very particular conditions until start of trials.

Right now we are prepping a group of subjects so they are all about the same size. Sometimes we even make so all one sex or another.

The fun stuff is the backyard observations.

 

[Ariannah]

My birds are outside, like very outside and I keep track of feed intake. With the individually confined birds I can see the differences in feed intake very easily. The totally free-range birds also need more long the lines of energy when wind chill kicks in. The birds penned in barn / enclosed coops live a much more buffered existence and do not vary as much in terms of feed intake. My roosters are on maintenance rations, not for promoting growth or egg production. My broodstock game hens and American Dominique's are also on maintenance rations during most of the winter because hatching-egg collection is not practical owing to odds of freezing.

When it gets really cold coupled with contraction in feed intake, those in lay come out of lay for a few days before appetite resumes in a big way. Blizzard conditions can have the outside birds not eating for a day or two even though feed is present. Then they make up the difference.

Same here. We also live in Missouri. Ours stopped foraging and sometimes don't want to leave the coop or run at all. They would just stay on the roost inside the nice warm coop and are less interested in eating as well. That is when I give them their favorite treats (dried crickets, meal worms, scratch etc).

 

[Redhead Rae]

If you are on the central East coast or in Texas, New Country Organics may be a good choice for you. I feed my entire flock their No-corn Grower Broiler. All their feeds are no soy.

 

[Ariannah]

Backyard observations I make are hard to extrapolate from a lab. I do lab stuff all the time. Lab environment is tightly controlled and animals studied are all very similar genetically, often full-sibling when we can make that happen, of known age, and reared under very particular conditions until start of trials.

Right now we are prepping a group of subjects so they are all about the same size. Sometimes we even make so all one sex or another.

The fun stuff is the backyard observations.

Yep and the variety in breeds, climates, natural food sources available (the grasshopper or crickets that are eaten by chickens in a run that are only fed commercial feed), the different needs of a chicken owner (scale of the flock, housing, budget etc) all make it extra difficult. That is why I think that every experience of a chicken keeper is so unique in my eyes.

 

[Kasilofchrisn]

Here in AK I buy a no corn no soy feed made by Alaska Mill and Feed in Anchorage.
I make my own scratch from whole corn, Boss and AK grown Barley.
They love corn but only get a little each day in their scratch treats.
If they get table scraps then they get no scratch.
I can honestly say I haven't noticed (or maybe because I didn't pay enough attention) a difference in the egg taste when I switched from corn based feed.
But I feel good with them on the no corn no soy layer mix.