What The Cluck is this Chick?

[TheAlrightyGina]

So I bought some eggs off of eBay a little while back cause I wanted to try a couple of breeds inexpensively. Those breeds being Bresse and Ameraucana; the first because I hear they're tasty and I'm on a quest to find the tastiest chicken and the latter because I've only had Easter Eggers before and wanted the OG. The hatches did not go too well, and I'm still investigating why (it might be my incubator, I've gotten a new one that I'm testing out). ANYWAY two hatched from the Bresse and one from the Ameraucana group. From researching the breed I know what both are supposed to look like, roughly, and I'm pretty sure at least one of the Bresse is in fact a Bresse and the Ameraucana is also probably actually an Ameraucana. But one of them has me confounded.

So tell me what you guys think this chick (and yeah, definitely a cockerel...) is:

He's approximately 5 weeks old.

To compare, his hatchmate:

They look pretty similar, so you might be wondering why I don't think he's a Bresse (or at least a pure one). Well, for one, his legs are off color. But the biggie is his comb.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this a carnation comb? Bresse are supposed to have regular single combs. The seller swears they don't have anybody sneaking into the hen house. So what could explain my boy here?

Just for fun, here's the Ameraucana:

Them cheeks y'all. I squee every time I look at 'em.

 

[Rhodebar Lover]

I think carnation combs can just kinda show up. I had Rhodebars with side sprigs kind of like yours. Your Ameraucana is a non-standardized color and is an Easter Egger

 

[TheAlrightyGina]

I think carnation combs can just kinda show up. I had Rhodebars with side sprigs kind of like yours. Your Ameraucana is a non-standardized color and is an Easter Egger

I knew they'd be a non standard color. They came from a mixed color pen. Are they considered an EE cause they're non standard color, or is there something else?

Interesting about the carnation combs...I'll have to look into it more. I didn't know they could just show up. However, both his legs and his beak are still off color, though I have read that that's possible in Bresse, but it should supposedly darken with age.

 

[Frazzemrat1]

I knew they'd be a non standard color. They came from a mixed color pen. Are they considered an EE cause they're non standard color, or is there something else?

Interesting about the carnation combs...I'll have to look into it more. I didn't know they could just show up. However, both his legs and his beak are still off color, though I have read that that's possible in Bresse, but it should supposedly darken with age.

That's how most of the hatcheries started their EE pens... by mixing colors in Ameraucana and then calling them Americana. Typically they'd still be considered EE.

 

[TheAlrightyGina]

That's how most of the hatcheries started their EE pens... by mixing colors in Ameraucana and then calling them Americana. Typically they'd still be considered EE.

Huh. That seems ridiculously arbitrary. I thought EEs were birds with the blue egg gene (or heritage) that didn't comform to the standards for the breed (such as comb type, leg color, muffs, beard, etc). So crossing Ameraucanas with different plumage colors will result in an Easter Egger? Are any other breeds like that, or just Ameraucanas because of their muddy history?

 

[TheAlrightyGina]

@Rhodebar Lover do you have any source for the carnation comb being spontaneous? I'm having trouble finding anything except the breeds that are known to have them (the Empordanesa and Penedesenca).

 

[Frazzemrat1]

Huh. That seems ridiculously arbitrary. I thought EEs were birds with the blue egg gene (or heritage) that didn't comform to the standards for the breed (such as comb type, leg color, muffs, beard, etc). So crossing Ameraucanas with different plumage colors will result in an Easter Egger? Are any other breeds like that, or just Ameraucanas because of their muddy history?

They don't have much a muddy history... But with any breed, if it doesn't conform to standards, then its considered a mix.
EEs are any mix that is intended to carry the blue egg gene. So the hatcheries started off with mixed breed ameraucana, and probably added something else that lays more often to get more eggs; which is where they started turning green. Then they breed the EEs back to each other; throwing in an ameraucana or a cream legbar every once in a while to refresh the blue egg gene. Eventually they started breeding for specific styles; like the all white EEs, barred etc.
But going back, mixed colored ameraucana wouldn't breed true for color so therefore wouldn't be considered a true ameraucana.

 

[TheAlrightyGina]

They don't have much a muddy history... But with any breed, if it doesn't conform to standards, then its considered a mix.
EEs are any mix that is intended to carry the blue egg gene. So the hatcheries started off with mixed breed ameraucana, and probably added something else that lays more often to get more eggs; which is where they started turning green. Then they breed the EEs back to each other; throwing in an ameraucana or a cream legbar every once in a while to refresh the blue egg gene. Eventually they started breeding for specific styles; like the all white EEs, barred etc.
But going back, mixed colored ameraucana wouldn't breed true for color so therefore wouldn't be considered a true ameraucana.

I see what you're saying. I said muddy history because there's contention about the development of the Ameraucana. Some sources say there were developed from Araucanas because of the lethal genes of the latter, whereas others say that they were developed from non standardized blue egg layers (ie Easter Eggers) concurrently with the Araucana during the 1920s-30s.

I can't think of any other breed like this...or am I just missing something? If I bred two Brahmas together for example, one Dark and one Light, the offspring would still be considered a Brahma even though it probably wouldn't match either the Dark or the Light standard, right?

 

[Frazzemrat1]

I see what you're saying. I said muddy history because there's contention about the development of the Ameraucana. Some sources say there were developed from Araucanas because of the lethal genes of the latter, whereas others say that they were developed from non standardized blue egg layers (ie Easter Eggers) concurrently with the Araucana during the 1920s-30s.

I can't think of any other breed like this...or am I just missing something? If I bred two Brahmas together for example, one Dark and one Light, the offspring would still be considered a Brahma even though it probably wouldn't match either the Dark or the Light standard, right?

I would consider them a mixed breed brahma. Or a poorly bred brahma.
There really isn't another name for something like that, like they can with EE.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Ameraucana were bred from a mix from standard South American (rumpless) aruancana and the UK version which is tailed, muffed, and crested.

 

[TheAlrightyGina]

I would consider them a mixed breed brahma. Or a poorly bred brahma.
There really isn't another name for something like that, like they can with EE.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Ameraucana were bred from a mix from standard South American (rumpless) aruancana and the UK version which is tailed, muffed, and crested.

Man, chicken breeding is wild. I thought something like that would just be called a non-standard or something, not mixed breed, since I thought breed referred to the variety of chicken not the color of their plumage. But I get what you are saying now. I just hate using the term EE for a bird when both parents are Ameraucanas. Seems to make things even more confusing, haha.