What's up with organic?

[dancingbear]

Brunty, I've seen those pics before, and I have to agree. It's too bad there's not a "certified humane conditions" along with the legal definition of free range, and too bad that "organic" has been so diluted in meaning.

Those of us who understand and respect the spirit of organic and/or free range production are appalled by some of the practices allowed by current laws, and at the same time, those laws make it extremely expensive and time consuming to get certified in the first place. That's why I won't ever be doing that, myself.

I'll just use real free-ranging, and feed the best, cleanest feed I can afford. It isn't organic, because I can't afford it. But my birds are healthy, and have a very high fertility/hatchability rate, so I must be doing something right.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

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As long as you and your customers understand the difference than thats all that matters.


Tim... I'm not sure I understand what you want me to do?

The guidlines to organics is explained in great detail on the USDA website and under it's guidlines all four of the farms I posted pics of... are indeed certified organic.

It basically says (short version) is that they must have access to outdoors weather permitting.... they must have chemical free feed... pasture/dirt..... ect. They must not have cages....and no animal by-products...

The quality of the outdoor space... or even space requirements in the warehouse are whatever the producer sees fit....

There is just bad regulations on it that's all.... they need to define the space requirements and stocking densities, because basically the warehouse they are in is like a giant cage.

 

[walls0stone]

honestly it's all a crock of crap.

If someone wants to have food that meets a speck do your own math and ask your own questions of the person(s) who produce it. The rules for organic hogs are diff' than for fowl..and the same for cattle. actualy organic milk is 99% the same as the store stuff. You you think a farmer is going to let a cow get sick? any idea what a cow can cost?

It's like this CSA business, I know of folks who swear by those farms, but the person who sells them the stuff is just getting it from a bigger place.

Also, If this organic stuff was so great, why don't they have us all eating it? why do they keep the numbers of organic producers to a min? to keep demand high. What if AA was like that?

Sorry, you can't live a better life.. we only have room for so many in the co-opp. but that's what they tell us about organic milk. only so many allowed in the room at once.

Think about this...chickens peck crap..they eat bugs...and goodness knows what elts. yea that sounds healthy to me.

I hate how they paint a picture of the happy farmer, with his American Gothic life and charge 3 times more for what we used to call POVERTY!

 

[TimG]

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Do you know at which farms the pictures were taken? Where did you find the pictures? Maybe if you just point me to the web site I can find the details there.

 

[AHappychick]

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actually if you get certified co-ops at least the ones I know welcome you with open arms there is so much demand and not enough of us. As for the cost of a cow when it gets sick, well it is hard not to use medical methods, I have in birds I was selling to people who did not care, but for my own, well I have losses sometimes but as I get better with my organic methods and breed birds more resistant the number of losses lessens. As for it being a crock well that is a silly statement unless you think we all are liars, I am sure there are some out there but the majority of us are honest and use only organic methods. Frankly I am not a liar and if you just take a glimpse at any organic farming book you will see how much time and effort has gone into living that lifestyle.

 

[Bossroo]

From what I can see of the certified organic farming methods... back to the methods from the 18th century of my forefathers farms where more time and labor are required to feed just one's family and maybe a little extra to sell to someone else to make some money for necessities like salt or luxuries like a piece of candy. My father was one of 10 siblings and only 3 lived past 5 years of age. His father was one of 13 kids and only 4 lived to adulthood. My wife's father was one of 11 kids and only5 survived. My wife'w mother was one of 14 kids and 3 lived to adulthood. We are batting 3 for 3. HOW COME ? The meat from grassfed farm animals was usually tougher and survival rate of newborn animals was low and egg production was nowhere near what a modern hen will lay. ( my father was a farm veterinarian before he taught Veterinary Freshman anatamy at a major University for 27 years) Flies on the barn walls in the hundred thousands, mosquitos in every farm pond and no drugs for any desease. Yes, I personally witnessed this scene when I accompanied my father on farm calls. Is this the legacy that organic farming practices will bestow to our kids and grandkids?

 

[Buck Creek Chickens]

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Do you know why it costs so much more, you need a paper trail all the way back to the beginning, the seed in the ground, were the seed came from,who grew it, what mill growned the feed, the hatched chicked, then it needs to be on file, it needs to go back 3 or more years. if just one thing gets messed up you start again. and like it was said and shown it that top picture it doesn't mean a thing.

 

[cockadoodle]

The main reason the government is involved in all of this is because the consumer was faced with 10,000+ versions of what organic means back when consumers first started getting interested in organic products. We have organic producers in China too... it isn't just a US thing... so standards needed to be put in place. You probably have no idea how much of our organic produce is from overseas.. No standards equates to not just confused shoppers, but then lawsuits, consumers sueing companies, companies sueing eachother, etc, etc...regulation is the result. It levels the playing field. The cost of admission is high, and the standards are known. You don't have to buy organic if you grow that way, personally I like the choice. I buy organic when I can since as one example, I don't like drinking rBGH in my milk. Or eating the poisions on my lettuce or celery that may end up illegal some day for causing cancer. You can't wash toxins out of a plant that has absorbed them. I don't need a certified organic label on my eggs because I won't be selling them (not concerned about charging more for them) and I know what they eat, but if I had to buy them at the store, I would buy the organic ones if I could. At least then I know a little more about what I'm eating

by knowing what they weren't eating... Just my opinion... organic may be over-rated to many and it does cost more, supply / demand being a huge factor... the margins in grocery stores are very very low, so most of it is not profit. Maybe we are what we eat... maybe we aren't.. I tend to believe in the former, but my wallet often mandates the later

I am amused by all the anti-government kind of opinions. This is 95% the free market at work.

 

[dancingbear]

Cockadoodle, I agree.

I can't afford organic certification for my garden, and can't afford organic feed for my birds. But I don't feed them medicated feed, they're truly free-ranged, and my gardens and fields don't get sprayed with pesticides, herbicides, or synthetic fertilizers. I use compost and soluble kelp. I use mostly heirloom varieties. I can taste the difference, and so can my veggie and egg customers. I tell my customers exactly what I use on my garden, and what I feed my birds. They seem to feel it's "organic enough", and after they try it, they want more. So my birds and eggs can't be called organic, but my garden can.

Those who pay the fees, keep the records, and jump through the hoops, have earned the difference in price. And it drives their costs up, too. That's the reason it costs more, as you said. Not because some mysterious "they" have a conspiracy to keep the market locked up.

 

[Buster52]

The problem with the organic regulations and laws is that megafarms and ag conglomerates are the ones with the real lobbying power. Like many things, what started out as a well intentioned idea was so corrupted and watered down by the lobbying interests that it became more of a burden for the small farmer/gardener than a help.